Chartered CIPD - what is it equivalent to?

Thanks, Liz. I have been confused by seeing all the different levels of membership on this forum.  I shall get moving with my associate application!

Hannah

It is my understanding that Certificate of HR Practice does not lead to Associate Membership. Graduate membership applied to people who had completed the old PDS (level 7) qualification, but did not have the requisite practical experience. I think that the old Licentiate (Pople who had completed the first two Level 7 modules) and Graduate have been combined into Assoc CIPD.

I do believe in the value of the CIPD qualification personally, I think it demonstrates a commitment to the profession, and so I prefer my Senior team members to be qualified, however having all of that knowledge is not much use, if people are unable to relate it to the work environment. 

It did seem for a while that the CIPD were giving away the family silver (giving the postgraduate level - Graduate CIPD - away to people who were studying at degree level) although it seems it has been repositioned in recent years. 

See too

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Qualifications_Framework

 and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Vocational_Qualification

- an often-confusing picture, but Chartered MCIPD seems to equate to NVQ5 and to UK National and EQF Level 7-ish (lower end thereof, I'd think).

However, NVQs purport to certify achievement of defined standards of actual competence in a real workplace, whereas, arguably, a lot less so in case of MCIPD.

Doctors have always (and quite rightly) needed extensive and demonstrable and thoroughly-certified workplace competence, and I think so do eg Chartered Engineers: I'm not fully familiar these days with the requirements of the latter, but a Masters degree in engineering, followed by a rigorous workplace learning and competence-certification programme is, AFAIK, mandatory: achievement of a taught HE qualification is only the start of, in effect, a professional apprenticeship.

It seems to me that completing the foundation level postgraduate general (MBA module 1) which equal to postgraduate diploma is not enough for Assoc CIPD/graduate. Having completed specialist modules postgradute (MSc), practical application alone may not be enough, even though most postgraduate diplpma students combined both (work and study) as I certainly did as distance learning student.

I completed the certificate in Human Resource Practice last year which gained me knowledge towards associate membership but I still had to submit the usual documents required including statements from my line manager and another colleague to justify the upgrade. I have just upgraded to Associate member within the last couple of weeks. 

I am hoping to start a Post Grad dip next month (fingers crossed my MD approves it).  The university have advised the diploma and masters would gain the same level of CIPD accreditation. So my question is what are the benefit of masters over a diploma? And would it add any real value when applying to organisations?

Interesting thoughts...so I guess we cannot yet place our finger firmly on the academic status/value of a CIPD qualification.

Are we just dressed in the kings new clothes while chasing pretty reflective rainbows then?

Neither rainbows or new clothes Jason.

I think the attempt to equate everything to evrything else is a somewhat misguided and ultimately futile exercise. Some things serve no purpose to be compared and i think this is one of them.

There are degrees which have an academic measure. Then there are professional memberships which are just that marks of professional standing. Confusion may arise as many gain their professional status by way of academic qualifications, but that to me isn't teh same as equating the qualification with te professional standing.

Here's a thought.

So if we're not sure what chartered status equates to, and we feel unable to compare it against other academic milestones, how do we prove professional standing?

The CIPD have designed academic qualifications for us to attain, but I'm now wondering whether they're useless in terms of demonstrating one's competence because we struggle to compare them against anything else.

Plus why I have wasted 7 years studying for something that is looked on favourably by other CIPD/HR colleagues but remains alien to the outside world because it's not easily comparable to say chartered engineer status?

What is the point though of comparing a Chartered Engineer with a Chartered MCIPD? They are different, representing different professional paths. It would be like comparing a swimmer to a runner. You can admire both for being Chartered if you like but trying to say they are equal is a pretty pointless activity in my view.

You prove professional standing plan and simply by attaining the relevant professional standing within the Institute. Thats is, for me no simpler or more complex.  As to external recognition until the profession attains the wider recognition (which I think we are no closer to than ever) then the recognition won't follow - you cant force someone to recognise you by saying look at me my MCIPD is really equivalent to a Masters Degree or a C.Eng.

You don't prove professional standing by force fitting it into some other scale or measure.

And Liz you havent wasted 7 years of your life as you have attained (I assume) both an accademic qualification that is comparable to other academic and a professional membership that is recognised as the badge within teh industry. O and probably gained a whole heap of knowledge along the way :-)

.....but thats not what employers want to hear to be honest Keith and its actually a real world question I have been asked - not hypothetical.

Its great we can pat ourselves on the back and say we have 'achieved' and are 'professionals', but with a demand to prove worth and value, the competition is on to demonstrate the worth of this in real world terms - which in this case are to match it academically.

Employers find it a mystifying area, which isn't helped by recruiters
who want to tick a box, earn a fee and dazzle them with (very little)
science by demanding such qualification. Why not employ an Associate CIPD member who has years of solid 'qualification by experience' for example?

I've asked one of the CIPD staff who may hold the key to these and may more questions to jump in here to add some clarity when they are able to. They will be along shortly Im sure but happy still to chat.

A good discussion from a small query to be honest.

(Cue obscure *sci-fi reference*)

Just dont anyone tell me that the answer is 42 or I may have to just go and find my towel and have a long lay down...