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'Dismissed on the grounds of redundancy'

Mark

Apologies if this is the wrong place to put this or if the public asking questions of the CIPD community in this way is not on.

I would be grateful for some advice please.

I am a Podiatrist working in the NHS. I have been in the same place of work for 23 years although I dropped 2 days a few years ago to work part time in another trust.

I am currently band 7 (in both jobs)  and have been for about 20 years. I specialise in musculoskeletal conditions and minor surgery. All my training (including MSc) and experience is in that area.

My department is being restructured and moving over exclusively to high risk foot care (diabetes work) something I have no specialist knowledge or interest in. I was offered an interview as Band 8 team lead which I declined and asked to apply for a band 7 diabetes lead role. Even though I don't have the diabetes experience I interviewed and the correct person got the job (not me).

With the restructure my post has been made redundant.

In the last week of consultation my junior colleague handed in his notice so I was offered that job, band 6 diabetes specialist despite being told that there would be no cross band matching and any match would have to be 75% similar. It is a lower role with less status and responsibility and a completely alien area of my profession. I have been offered pay protection for 3 years and training. I am the only person in the department negatively affected (I also happen to be the most qualified).

I took legal advice from a solicitor and union. I was told that proving that SAE is not suitable is hard and legal representation is expensive. As a result my union declined to help me and I can not afford the legal costs. So at this point my choice is to take the SAE or leave. I had 2 meetings without prejudice at my request.

I declined the SAE (the job is really not for me) and as a result I have been given notice of dismissal on the grounds of redundancy. No package has been offered obviously. I have asked to not serve my full notice as i am finding the whole process stressful and prefer to be out. We have compromised on 1 month notice rather than three.

After deciding that I cant go forward with any legal challenge I was surprised in the formal meeting to be told that I had the right to appeal. I hadn't considered an appeal. I was told that this was mainly to appeal the consultation process (that has generally been handled correctly).

The questions I have are;

How does an appeal differ from a tribunal?

Is it normal to self represent at an appeal (can afford legal fees)?

Is the suitability of SAE something that is suitable for appeal?

What are the chances (obviously without know the intimate details of the case)?

With huge thanks in advance and apologies again if this is against forum etiquette etc.

  • in reply to Mark
    Hello Mark

    You can keep the argument you have to present quite clear and simple: it is up to you to decide on the suitability for the role for you. I would quote Acas to them and provide printed out pages from the Acas website.

    The training they have offered would only be relevant if you wanted the job. The fact that you would need training would seem to support the view that there is a difference in the skills and knowledge required to carry out the role on offer regardless of what the lead thinks about what people ought to know, which is beside the point. But those points seem to me to be less important than the points you have made already above about why you consider the job not suitable.

    Although you don’t feel able to counter their points, I would say what you have just said above about the difference in the types of responsibility. That seems to me to hit the nail on the head.

    Did you feel able to use your union’s complaints procedure or is it all too much at the moment? It isn’t too late to get decent support for Thursday.
  • in reply to Elizabeth Divver
    Hi Mark

    From the information provided, I consider that there is little doubt that your employers misunderstand the applicable employment law and have acted unreasonably / unlawfully in withholding your rightful redundancy payment.

    Would recommend that you simply stick to asking them how a lesser graded post in a completely different area of podiatry amounts to suitable alternative employment. The second stage of the test - would it be unreasonable from your personal point of view to refuse it, even if it were ‘suitable’ doesn’t even apply and needn’t even be asked, but of course if it is a specialism from which you would derive little job satisfaction then even if you’d been offered a podiatry job on the same grade etc, rather obviously it wouldn’t be unreasonable for you to refuse it,

    Whatever the opinions of others, they don’t really matter, as they don’t alter the above facts of the matter.

    Just stick to that. They will probably be arrogant / stupid enough to reject the appeal, then just start the legal challenges, first via ACAS and come back here for detailed guidance.

    It’s amazing to me that a vast employer like this can be so very wrong and act so dictatorially and ineptly: don’t let them grind you down or run over you with their corporate steamroller!
  • in reply to David
    PS

    See too for just one of very many legal commentaries

    www.harpermacleod.co.uk/.../
  • in reply to David
    Further PS

    Suggest, Mark, that if / when they throw out the appeal fire off this ASAP
    ec.acas.org.uk/.../Create

    (Date of event asked for will be date of redundancy dismissal or date of the appeal that turned down the payment - probably the latter, but it’s no great matter provided you register the form pronto)
  • Meeting was set for 1.30 today.
    Call at 10.15 am today telling me that its been cancelled. The Podiatrist on the panel has called in (today) to inform that she is also a union rep so doesn't feel that it would be appropriate for her to take part.
    Bloody marvellous.
    They are trying to get someone else at the 11th hour but doubt they will.
  • in reply to Mark
    What a shame that didn't occur to her until 10:15 on the day of the meeting. I can't help wondering if she read the paperwork and decided she didn't want to go anywhere near this horrendous muddle. If so, it would have been braver to come along and try to help sort it out.
  • They have found a replacement so its back on.
    Will update you later.
  • in reply to Mark
    Mark I have been watching your post and you've had some excellent advice from others, so have nothing to contribute apart from providing my best wishes for the meeting later.