I want to also add what the view is if someone changes jobs but just moves laterally on the same level from one to another one, i.e. just goes sideways or even takes a step down etc?

A career is not a mathematical equation. Being  at X by Y does not equal you will get to Z. It just doesn’t work like that.

When I look st a CV I tend to look ( and ask) at what legacy someone left behind, why are things different because they were there? If they can give a good answer they spent long enough. If they can’t then they are unlikely to progress in my process.

You have asked on numerous occasions about qualifications making up for experience. In fact you asked again this morning. They don’t. They won’t. They will not help you leapfrog 2-3 quality valued adding jobs or full experience gaps.

Generally if someone has been in the same admin level job for 10+ years then it will be very hard for them to demonstrate the added value and progression necessary.

Age discrimination is of course illegal. But my observation is that if you are going to make it to the very top jobs then it’s likely you will be in a “Head of” type role by late  30s/early 40s. Relatively few people break through fully after that - it is possible just harder and less likely. ( unless you transfer in from a senior job in another function)

Anyone who seriously suggests going away and holding down the same job for ten years to prove you are capable is talking nuts and I wound discount their advice.

In reply to Keith:

Age discrimination is of course illegal. But my observation is that if you are going to make it to the very top jobs then it’s likely you will be in a “Head of” type role by late 30s/early 40s. Relatively few people break through fully after that - it is possible just harder and less likely.

What however happens in my case that I did not enter HR until 40, five years ago as a mid-career changer. I had another career back in my 20s and 30s?

Time and health permitting, am I now effectively playing two decade catch up time and will hence need to double or triple up by working into my 70s or 80s to get the extra years and time back on my side by not going into it in my 20s or 30s like most people have?

Unless one works five times as hard to close the gap.

I have dropped the Marketing idea. It's unlikely they would take me into that on entry level at 45.

In reply to Andre:

It is not ( in my opinion) a question of time served. In theory yes you could get the same number of years in by 65/70. But...but... but it’s unlikely to be the same. For all the legislation it would be very rare to get the very top jobs you seek in that way. Look at those profiles of HRDs etc. Do you see many in their 70’s or heaven for bid 80’s? It’s just not a model that people have adopted yet ( or I think are likely to)

Often HRDs tend to go into consultancy etc in late 50s as they tend to struggle to get new roles and that’s with experience.

Realistically you will get on if you can demonstrate added value and talent ( talent not more qualifications ) if your talent is not being recognised then ask yourself why?

In reply to Keith:

Having entered HR late at 40, on average some 10-15 years above the average, it would be fair to say that I have lost that time. Most people do not embark on a wholesale sector change at 40+ (think how difficult and time consuming it would be yourself to now retrain to be a news reporter) which gives an idea of the difficulty involved, but at least I can say that I broke into HR and have worked in HR.

The answer and solution may therefore lie in self-employment. One can start a business similar to the Peninsula or Boston Consulting Group model and work on that basis. If one can get the CIPD 7, Associate Membership and gain many years of junior HR experience, you should be able to do something with that.

In reply to Andre:

As Keith and others have said in many posts :

1. Serving time in a junior job is no guarantee that the jobholder is capable of undertaking a larger job.
2. Larger jobs call not only for more technical knowledge, but also significantly different additional personal and interpersonal skillsets
3. In order of increasing jobsize, there skillsets are (simplified explanation) organisational, coordination, empathy and the ability to convince, managerial, strategic vision and leadership.
4. To move to a larger job a candidate must convince deciders that they possess or have the strong potential to use the next level of skills - or acquire them if they have not already demonstrated their existence (by stretching assignments or projects, for example).

I repeat what I have said in other posts - CIPD qualification levels certifY the possession of technical knowkledge, and not the demonstrated ability to use it in real life situations, that is done by the Member and Fellow membership level IMHO. It is technically possible to obtain a level 7 qualification however this alone does not guarantee the person has the proven track record operating at senior and strategic levels to be able to obtain the grade of Fellow or even Member.

Finally, I would reword Keith's comment about age and put it in terms of experience - getting a senior job usually requires 10-15 years of applied experience in jobs where responsibilities have increased over time. I have seen people enter the profession at 40+, and take a fast track to the top on the basis of the skills mentioned above, whilst relying on the heavy technical knowledge of their teams. The best R&D directors are rarely the "best" tecnical experts - their job is to coordinate, prioritise and manage others who handle the techy things. I also had the privilege of working with the CFO of a £90bn business of 200.000+ people in 67 countries; he became CFO at 42 and believe me, his technical skills were less and less important as he moved up the ladder.

In reply to Andre:

Andre, I started my CIPD qualifications at 40 or 41,

I can assure you that someone who had NO qualifications but plenty of experience and, as others have said, with the requisite interpersonal skills could have progressed the same as anyone else. In most private businesses progression in HR is based on job related ability and to an extent this goes hand in hand with good interpersonal skills.

To spell it out further, if you are a technical expert, posses eagle eyed employment law knowledge but are an absolute dip stick when it comes to try and engage with others at THEIR level and ability - then you'll go no where. Equally, if you have excellent interpersonal skills and can charm the birds off the trees, you'll pick up what skills/knowledge and understanding you'll need as you progress up the corporate ladder. I know lots of people who've progressed in this manner.

Much more importantly is deciding when to stop bangin your head against the wall and take a sideways career change. Climbing up the corporate ladder is not the be all and end all. But waking up in the morning and looking forward to the days work is.

In reply to David Perry:

Excellent post, David. Thank you.

Not a reply to your question, but where do I find statistics on average length of service? You've mentioned "The average length of tenure in a role is some 3-5 years" - could you please share where you have that data from? Bonus points for a comparison per sector/industry!

.............and a total career or working life is around 50 years (some can push it to 60 years +)  Wow! thats some working life.  I think people plan to retire long, long before they've spent that long sitting behind a desk.

There's also plenty of evidence that very very few people stay on one career path for most of their working life.  Such a shame to have your work & life? planned out like this.

In reply to David Perry:

That is so reassuring to hear David. I have worked for the same SME boss for over 20 years but in different businesses. I originally 'fell' into the HR remit taking on the admin, coordinating recruitment etc because there wasn't a separate HR function, but it soon became a genuine interest for me. Over the years, I have endeavoured to ensure my knowledge is up to date through a variety of methods and resources (not least CIPD!).
For various reasons I have not been able to do any formal CIPD qualifications on top of what I've already got going on but I would like to at some point; however for now I intend to make use of the excellent CIPD progression framework online modules which look like something I will be far better able to fit in alongside everything else I'm doing. I'm now the wrong side of 49, and 18 months ago I was promoted to HR Director, something which I still pinch myself about; I think I underestimate myself and my knowledge because I don't have that piece of paper with the formal qualification (and definitely some imposter syndrome sprinkled in for good measure!) but day to day when something comes up which I deal with to everyone's satisfaction it reminds me that I must be doing ok!