Impossible with a capital 'i' to advance in the HR profession?

Hi Andre

I think that part of the solution could be reframing how you look at your situation.
I get the sense that you see this in terms of adding skills, and adding more skills until you come out on top, indisputably the best, and if you can find the right qualification or experience to add, people will see it and acknowledge you as the best. However, recruitment is more like finding the right shape of peg to fit into what may be a very funny-shaped hole. As I was taught to explain when administering psychometric tests, there are no right or wrong answers, just a better or worse fit.

It is not dissimilar to the idea of best practice. There are other threads on here where people have talked about best practice and some very experienced people have challenged the idea and pointed out that HR is rarely a one-size-fits-all exercise. We should be looking for the best solution in a given situation, not some abstract "best".

Further down this thread you share with us that you find it difficult talking to people you don’t know, and building relationships with people you don’t know, especially in the workplace. I would say that this would most definitely affect your interview performance. However, we are all very used to making reasonable adjustments in recruitment nowadays. Is there an adjustment that you could request that would help you to interact with an interviewer?

I would say that you need a talent for sales and self-promotion to make HR consultancy work. You might be able to get some clients by recommendation, but if you make this your career you will need to get good at cold calling, building relationships with strangers and talking to people you don't know. From what you have told us about yourself, you would not be playing to your strengths as a consultant.

I would suggest that you target HR Admin roles in big companies with large HR Departments. Use your existing skills to get into a company and then start looking out for a promotion opportunity once you have built relationships across the organisation.

Hi Elizabeth,

What you say is true, but why are PhD degrees as an example far more common and valued in other advanced economies such as Germany and the United States of America, where far more Directors and CEOs routinely hold them than in the United Kingdom?

One other reason why I wish to 'superskill' myself up is for the longer term objective of immigration where more degrees, pieces of papers, years of experience et al give you more points. I wish to eventually experience living and working in HR in another country.

Kind regards

Andre.

If, since you started this thread, you have now decided that your goal is to work abroad and your reseach tells you a PhD will be required, then go for it. As Keith has already pointed out, it is unlikely to help you to secure your next job in HR in this country. I have never tried to secure an HR role outside this country and have no relevant knowledge to share but others may be able to advise.

I would ideally like to work in HR in the Benelux countries. I can speak Dutch, but how international in practice is the CIPD Level 7 qualification, or is it mainly a question of requaliying and starting out again from scratch?

Although EU employment law exists, they also have their own national labour law, HR policies and procedures. Possibly working for an international NGO in The Netherlands or Belgium could be an option here. The CIPD is based overseas in Dubin, Dubai and Singapore, but it still seems to be a more UK specific qualification, as opposed to being able to be used in continental Europe. The only international dimension to it as I understand is that CIPD Associate Members can join the Australian HR Institute, Australia's equivalent of the CIPD. However, HR as a profession is not on the national skills shortage occupation list to immigrate to Australia by.

Andre

In my experience many/most international HR organisations are not awash with PhDs and they are very much the exception rather than the norm. Even in Germany. I have worked for a number of international business and I haven’t come across many people so qualified and so far none in HR. Now that may well just be me.

I think the danger for you is that a PhD and experience at the administrative level just confuses people be that in the UK or elsewhere.

I go back to my earlier advice. The key for me is finding out what is really blocking your progress and developing the skills and techniques to remove that blockage. I would be amazed frankly if that was a qualification.

But if you are passionate about studying for a PhD and can fund it then I wish you every success. It will certainly give you access to a lot of thought leadership on a particular targeted area of HR and the time and space to explore it at a really in-depth level.

I think the barriers in my case come down to two key factors, namely age and experience.

(1) I did not break into HR until the age of 40 as a mid career changer. and unlike the vast majority of members of the profession, did not enter it in my 20s and 30s. I feel that I don’t fit the stereotype in that respect, and employers may either not bother so much with the over 40s. Itis also a proven fact (I will be 45 next month) if you read the book by Robin Bell, Finding work over 40. that it is more difficult to get jobs over the age of 40.

(2) Elizabeth makes good suggestions, but I can’t get into or get a job in a company. They don’t take me and it does not happen. An HR Administrator is an HR Administrator and the role does not offer the opportunity to obtain the experience to be an HR Advisor. Few Junior or Trainee HR Advisor roles exist and the ones that I applied for either did not get back to me or just sent a rejection email.

The feedback I do receive is that other candidate’s had more relevant and matching experience that better met and fitted the needs of our business and requirements of the role in question.

It’s a highly complex situation, but I would say that due to a combination of the market, employer’s requirements and other structural and systemic factors, I am blocked from going any further or deeper in this profession.

Despite of all my studies, I can’t get the job and experience to get above HR Administrator level in a nutshell.

Andre, sorry to read about your frustraztions in trying to move into a more responsible role.

My experience is that people who provide an excellent service in an administrative role and demonstrate the ability to understand  where the role fits in terms of HR services to management, can and do move into an advisory role. However this is unlikely to happen in a small organisation (no scope) and is more likely in large organisations that are accustomed to managing people development. Usually the person in question has initially continued with the admin role but has taken on additional responsibilties (often project work) that calls far a deeper understanding and calling for some recommendations either in applied solutions or policy changes.If this works out, then more an more "professional" duties can be added progressively

Could you consider this type of approach, once you are in an admin job - i.e. after demonstrating your operational ability and effectiveness, ask for additional duties or projects, or taking part in some of the wotk carried out by advisors or managers?

Moving from a pure admin role to a pure advisory role without passing through a phase of planned and organised development is rarer (except in start-ups where the organic nature of the company calls for perpetual and rapid change by jobholders).

Finally, the applicability of HR qualifications is usually fairly country-relevant because of specific labour laws, operational HR processes, employee representational bodies, national cultures, country-specific employment packages (a French package is nothing like a Dutch package or an American or Chinese package) - so unless you plan to work in "soft" areas like people development then an international transition is far from easy.

Good luck with you search

Andre, sorry to read about your frustraztions in trying to move into a more responsible role.

My experience is that people who provide an excellent service in an administrative role and demonstrate the ability to understand  where the role fits in terms of HR services to management, can and do move into an advisory role. However this is unlikely to happen in a small organisation (no scope) and is more likely in large organisations that are accustomed to managing people development. Usually the person in question has initially continued with the admin role but has taken on additional responsibilties (often project work) that calls far a deeper understanding and calling for some recommendations either in applied solutions or policy changes.If this works out, then more an more "professional" duties can be added progressively

Could you consider this type of approach, once you are in an admin job - i.e. after demonstrating your operational ability and effectiveness, ask for additional duties or projects, or taking part in some of the wotk carried out by advisors or managers?

Moving from a pure admin role to a pure advisory role without passing through a phase of planned and organised development is rarer (except in start-ups where the organic nature of the company calls for perpetual and rapid change by jobholders).

Finally, the applicability of HR qualifications is usually fairly country-relevant because of specific labour laws, operational HR processes, employee representational bodies, national cultures, country-specific employment packages (a French package is nothing like a Dutch package or an American or Chinese package) - so unless you plan to work in "soft" areas like people development then an international transition is far from easy.

Good luck with you search