Impossible with a capital 'i' to advance in the HR profession?

I think the barriers in my case come down to two key factors, namely age and experience.

(1) I did not break into HR until the age of 40 as a mid career changer. and unlike the vast majority of members of the profession, did not enter it in my 20s and 30s. I feel that I don’t fit the stereotype in that respect, and employers may either not bother so much with the over 40s. Itis also a proven fact (I will be 45 next month) if you read the book by Robin Bell, Finding work over 40. that it is more difficult to get jobs over the age of 40.

(2) Elizabeth makes good suggestions, but I can’t get into or get a job in a company. They don’t take me and it does not happen. An HR Administrator is an HR Administrator and the role does not offer the opportunity to obtain the experience to be an HR Advisor. Few Junior or Trainee HR Advisor roles exist and the ones that I applied for either did not get back to me or just sent a rejection email.

The feedback I do receive is that other candidate’s had more relevant and matching experience that better met and fitted the needs of our business and requirements of the role in question.

It’s a highly complex situation, but I would say that due to a combination of the market, employer’s requirements and other structural and systemic factors, I am blocked from going any further or deeper in this profession.

Despite of all my studies, I can’t get the job and experience to get above HR Administrator level in a nutshell.

Andre, sorry to read about your frustraztions in trying to move into a more responsible role.

My experience is that people who provide an excellent service in an administrative role and demonstrate the ability to understand  where the role fits in terms of HR services to management, can and do move into an advisory role. However this is unlikely to happen in a small organisation (no scope) and is more likely in large organisations that are accustomed to managing people development. Usually the person in question has initially continued with the admin role but has taken on additional responsibilties (often project work) that calls far a deeper understanding and calling for some recommendations either in applied solutions or policy changes.If this works out, then more an more "professional" duties can be added progressively

Could you consider this type of approach, once you are in an admin job - i.e. after demonstrating your operational ability and effectiveness, ask for additional duties or projects, or taking part in some of the wotk carried out by advisors or managers?

Moving from a pure admin role to a pure advisory role without passing through a phase of planned and organised development is rarer (except in start-ups where the organic nature of the company calls for perpetual and rapid change by jobholders).

Finally, the applicability of HR qualifications is usually fairly country-relevant because of specific labour laws, operational HR processes, employee representational bodies, national cultures, country-specific employment packages (a French package is nothing like a Dutch package or an American or Chinese package) - so unless you plan to work in "soft" areas like people development then an international transition is far from easy.

Good luck with you search

Hi Andre,

I work as an Assistant HR Advisor for a health and social care charity and I've noticed this level of role becoming more common, I've seen a few similar roles advertised within the NHS among other places. I've found it to be a really good stepping stone to the next level.

It might not be easy to make the jump from HR Administrator to HR Advisor, but there may be roles out there that are kind of 'in between' that aren't so obvious on the job title front, like HR Officer or HR Co-Ordinator. It's worth focussing on the job descriptions more than the titles.

I'd say the voluntary work should be counted, maybe look at how this is being sold on your CV.

In addition to Keith's "Option 0", I would add an "Option 5":

Keep doing what you're doing and don't underestimate the influence of luck and good timing in success.

To some extent some would say "if you keep doing what you've always done, you'll keep getting what you always got", which is true to an extent. But the world of employment is an ever-shifting one in terms of what the market is looking for and there is a strong argument that, if you're applying for jobs appropriate to your qualifications and experience, it's just a numbers game: the more you apply for, the better your odds of securing something.

However - and this seems to be a repeating theme on this kind of thread - I do have to ask: if you are currently only ("only") working as an HR Administrator, why do you have a Level 7 CIPD qualification and an MSc in International HR? These are qualifications appropriate to an HRD or senior HRM.

My suspicion - as a recruiter - when I see these qualifications is one of two things: either this candidate has substituted education for experience and is only interested in having a job for as long as it takes to get the next foot up the ladder, or this candidate isn't really interested in HR practice and would rather be in academia.

So don't dismiss Option 6: Pursue an academic career in HR education.

As for your other options, my question to you is the same one I ask whenever I'm career counselling: what do you want?

In a recent chat, I was told "I want to earn at least £60,000 per year", but when I posited options that would help him move towards that, it turned out that - over the earning of money - what he really valued was stability for his family. He wanted to stay in his home and keep his children in their schools far more than he wanted to earn more money. But his most important priority was his own mental health - which had taken a few knocks over the years. By consciously prioritizing money, he was defining himself as "unsuccessful" when, in fact, by the measure of things that were *truly* important to him, he was already a roaring success!

You, too, may need to re-define your assumed definitions of success. We are used to looking at CEOs and leaders and high earners as "successful". But success should be considered "achieving the things in life that are most important to us". If the most important thing to you is your children's education, or the happiness of your marriage, or your ability to contribute to your community, then achieving those things is success, regardless of the state of your bank balance.

From your opening lines alone it seems clear to me that what's important to you isn't professional development, but academic development. If that's really what matters to you, why not continue down the road where you are already successful instead of trying to divert down a road where success is not only elusive but, in truth, less valuable to you.

There does come a time when it is just going to continue to hurt your head banging against a brick wall. But, I was around 40 when i did my IPD Diploma and I too couldn't get a job in HR despite having lots of training and other relevant experience. I was even told at a recruitment fair that I was too old.
That was red rag to a bull. So I just kept trying.
Have you thought of getting employed in a larger company with more HR staff where you can progress internally until you've got the experience you need to move onwards and upwards?

Another suggestion to add to the mix is to work for a relatively small organisation/not for profit/charity as an HR Administrator. I've certainly taken on several administrators that way who have had far greater opportunities to work at all levels of the HR team, simply because there is more flexibility. It wouldn't change the job title perhaps (or maybe in time because that kind of organisation will often try to recognise someone who goes above and beyond), but it could give valuable experience that you could draw on in future interviews and applications to take the next step up.

I managed to find my 1st role in HR after leaving uni with a non HR related degree by studying the CPP (now equivalent to Level 3). I started as 'Clerk' , and was then in Assistant roles for about the next 15 years, but as I worked in large Public sector organisations was fortunate enough to be given lots of opportunities for learning and development including shorter term Secondments and Acting ups. I was then able to find a role as Senior HR Assistant as the next step up, which was more recently re-named Advisor to more accurately reflect the duties.

Many thanks for all your replies, but the key issue here is that when people say try working for XYZ, (1) do they currently have any vacancies that they are presently recruiting for and (2) and most importantly, would they actually take me?

I can’t get into the private sector and / or break into a private company, and they just all send me rejection emails in return. They say that other candidate’s experience better meets our needs and fits the requirements of the role.

Strategic networking could be the way forward, but what are all your views on the following tactic to use in an attempt to beat the competition: offer to work for less money and longer hours to break in.

Thus, if an HR Advisor role is being advertised for £30k for a 35 hour week, tell the employer that I will do it for £20k and for 40 hour’s a week.

Undercut in a fine nutshell.

IMO that offer will be taken up by sharks but not by any reputable organisation.

It "may" get your foot through the door showing keenness but I certainly wouldn't work for anyone who took me up on the actual offer

In addition, would it be easier to get a job in the North West where there is less competition and salaries are lower as they don’t attract the London Weighting Allowance?