Hi Jason

The way I understand the current set up of CIPD qualifications is as follows:

Post Graduate Diploma in HRM or HRD is a Level 7 qualification

Level 7 quals in the National Qualifications Framework are equivalent to Masters level qualifications in the HE quals framework.

I believe, although I could be wrong with my interpretation, that a Level 7 qual will lead to Assoc CIPD level.

In order to upgrade to Chartered level you have to go through an upgrading process and thus ends up out of any qualifications frameworks currently being used.

The way I would describe chartered status is that it's a professional level that goes out of scope of the regular academic frameworks of learning, knowledge and achievement.

Currently what I can't get my head around is what level qualification employers are looking for when they ask for "CIPD qualified". I hold CPP, but have not yet finished my PG Dip, so does this make me CIPD qualified? I hold Assoc CIPD status, so does this make me CIPD qualified? Who knows?

Liz

Hi Liz

Many thanks for that...yes, it seems as clear as mud I guess, but thats helpful. I can now say that I have qualified beyond academia to the lofty heights of CIPD-ness.;-)

As for what employers want - I dont think they even know. I think that some of the more unscrupulous recruitment agents out there lead employers up whatever path they wish to justify their exorbitant fees and probably couldnt care less between the CIPD grades. So long as their placements last longer than the 3 month rebate fee.

I was considered AssocCIPD for many years and got along quite well to be honest, gaining senior HRM roles. It wasnt until I returned to my homelands of the wild North East where competition is rife, that a selection of very few people actually specified Chartered level (and even then I dont think they knew what they were actually getting for their money...). It was at that point that I thought it would be rude not to do the qualification, self funded it and elevated myself to more heights of CIPD-ness. But of course, met the criteria based upon being qualified by experience and competence pretty much anyway, which was all employers wanted to hear. It got me to interview.

 As for the recent grade changes...I wont even go there hey?!

I'd say you were 'CIPD qualified' for sure as Assoc CIPD. Perhaps using the grade letters might even be detrimental on a CV in the sifting process?

 Giz a job!

I think until employers cotton on to the fact that there are now 3 grades of status within CIPD, I too think a CIPD qualified person could mean a whole host of different things.

I'm lucky in that I work for a manufacturing business that places emphasis on mechanical engineers and chemical engineers to reach Chartered status in their fields, and this will help me to explain my status when I finally reach Chartered. I assume a chartered engineer will be roughly the same level as a Chartered HR professional.

I would suggest in the world of CIPD, you are currently more "qualified" than me because of your chartered status, but then if you were to compare CV's in terms of other academic qualifications and vocational work experience, it becomes a different kettle of fish again.

Despite us HR people always trying to find the best candidates that fit the criteria for a job, I feel it goes a long way if every applicant is assessed based on their application and not necessarily whether they fit the criteria. But that would take time.... a lot of time, so probably the best practice, but not the most applicable practice.

I couldnt agree more Liz.

I have met many people who are "CIPD qualified"...who lets say...dont know what it is actually like to "work at the coalface" and link this forward to a business and its success. These people regrettably seem to continually recycle themselves into businesses, with words which do not match actions in practice. The interim market is flooded with them at the moment in the current economic climate, so I pity the state of businesses which are left with a trail of destruction in their wake. I have had to 'mop up' after a few of them myself in recent years.

I wish employers would look beyond, but as I said before, sometimes we are victims of other processes of mis-management which do not do us HR people much justice. If I were AssocCIPD for so many years, then what changed when I got the 'Chartered' badge, aside from I was £5k lighter in my pocket?

* Gets on soapbox*

Dont even get me started on the inept market forces crushing pay rates for HR people, both interim and perm, at the moment. Whatever grade of CPD, we are becoming valued very poorly and command little room for manoeuvring. I thought this would be HR's most glorious hour, but it seems like its an uphill struggle to be heard and valued. I soldier on despite this of course. Grrrrr.

*Gets off soap box - thats my Friday rant over...lol*

I think the fundamental question here is - what will a qualification tell us that a trial period of work experience cannot? Other than somebody can apply themselves to study academically for a set period of time.

There is a company local to me who offer telephone based HR advice. They are continually recruiting, and their criteria is for HR qualified people - graduates with degrees in HRM or law, or CIPD qualification. I applied for a job with them and was turned down because I wasn't fully qualified, yet I had a degree in economics and part CIPD qualification. I couldn't (and still can't) understand what a degree in HRM actually qualified the advisors to do.

But yes Jason, I guess all HR professionals realise they are the forgotten function in the business, unless we're proving that we are "adding value". I feel that HR is going around in a circle and for a period I think we will eventually head back to the era of personnel rather than human resources. My business doesn't have a fancy HR strategy. I just try to ensure we look after each person fairly, in the line with the legislation, whilst keeping an eye on the business needs. But I am a stand alone generalist :)

I think they've made it far more complicated !  When I did my CIPD we had the first CPP course and then the CIPD course, once you had done your 2 years (or whatever the timeframe was) you then had your Post Grad Diploma and could put CIPD after your name.  This then meant once the new qualifications came in we were given Grad status on evidencial proof I think.

Now when my HRA talks about Level 5 - 7 or whatever I'm completely confused and think I may need to brush up on the most recent terminology !

Debbie

Debbie

I know where you're coming from. I started my CPP 8 years ago, passed that, moved on to PDS and then a bout of redundancy, new jobs, the recession = no training budget, and I then find the qualifications have moved on to PG Dip's at Level 7. Thankfully I have been accredited for some prior learning hence my Assoc CIPD already before I've finished the PG Dip. But I can't go for chartered status until I have successfully completed a Level 7 CIPD qual, which I'm still trying to do.

I just hope the CIPD don't move the goalposts again before I finish.

But to be honest, I doubt my MD is that bothered about whether I'm qualified or not, chartered or not. So long as I keep the business on the straight and narrow.

I recently completed the Certificate in HR Practice (although still waiting on formal acknowledgement and certification from CIPD).  I understand that I can now apply for Associate membership, which I plan to do, but am I now a Graduate member, rather than a Student member? Or is Gradute relative to a higher level of qualification?

 I think I have enough experience to complete the upgrade to Associate, but I believe I can't apply to do this until CIPD mark me off as having completed the Certificate....

Hannah

My understanding is the Graduate level of membership has now gone. Replaced by the Associate level.

Once upon a time, from what I remember, different levels of membership were

Student, Affliliate, Associate, Licentiate, Graduate and then the chartered levels were Chartered Member, Chartered Fellow. I think there may have been another chartered level but I cannot recall.

And the CIPD decided to phase them out and have 3 recognised professional levels instead.

It's taken me almost 2 years to get my head around it!

Liz

Thanks, Liz. I have been confused by seeing all the different levels of membership on this forum.  I shall get moving with my associate application!

Hannah

It is my understanding that Certificate of HR Practice does not lead to Associate Membership. Graduate membership applied to people who had completed the old PDS (level 7) qualification, but did not have the requisite practical experience. I think that the old Licentiate (Pople who had completed the first two Level 7 modules) and Graduate have been combined into Assoc CIPD.

I do believe in the value of the CIPD qualification personally, I think it demonstrates a commitment to the profession, and so I prefer my Senior team members to be qualified, however having all of that knowledge is not much use, if people are unable to relate it to the work environment. 

It did seem for a while that the CIPD were giving away the family silver (giving the postgraduate level - Graduate CIPD - away to people who were studying at degree level) although it seems it has been repositioned in recent years. 

See too

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Qualifications_Framework

 and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Vocational_Qualification

- an often-confusing picture, but Chartered MCIPD seems to equate to NVQ5 and to UK National and EQF Level 7-ish (lower end thereof, I'd think).

However, NVQs purport to certify achievement of defined standards of actual competence in a real workplace, whereas, arguably, a lot less so in case of MCIPD.

Doctors have always (and quite rightly) needed extensive and demonstrable and thoroughly-certified workplace competence, and I think so do eg Chartered Engineers: I'm not fully familiar these days with the requirements of the latter, but a Masters degree in engineering, followed by a rigorous workplace learning and competence-certification programme is, AFAIK, mandatory: achievement of a taught HE qualification is only the start of, in effect, a professional apprenticeship.

It seems to me that completing the foundation level postgraduate general (MBA module 1) which equal to postgraduate diploma is not enough for Assoc CIPD/graduate. Having completed specialist modules postgradute (MSc), practical application alone may not be enough, even though most postgraduate diplpma students combined both (work and study) as I certainly did as distance learning student.

I completed the certificate in Human Resource Practice last year which gained me knowledge towards associate membership but I still had to submit the usual documents required including statements from my line manager and another colleague to justify the upgrade. I have just upgraded to Associate member within the last couple of weeks. 

I am hoping to start a Post Grad dip next month (fingers crossed my MD approves it).  The university have advised the diploma and masters would gain the same level of CIPD accreditation. So my question is what are the benefit of masters over a diploma? And would it add any real value when applying to organisations?