I have followed this discussion with interest and agree it can be confusing when trying to ascertain what 'CIPD qualified' actually means, so I hope I can clarify a few key points.

The achievement of academic qualifications and being recognised as a fully qualified professional are not the same thing.

The CIPD qualifications are an important way of gaining the necessary knowledge HR professionals need to draw upon, but it is what a person actually does, and how they do it that denotes a 'fully qualified' and competent HR professional.

For the 3 Professional levels of CIPD membership we need to assess Knowledge, Activities and Behaviours. The relevant CIPD qualification means the knowledge requirement has been met - but it is through the upgrade process that we assess experience to confirm that the Activities and Behaviours have also been met. Professional recognition is not awarded just on the basis of a qualification alone.

For the Chartered levels of membership the minimum level of CIPD qualification required to cover the Knowledge requirement is the advanced diploma (delivered as a postgraduate diploma or as a Masters qualification) level 7 on QCF framework.

Once a student has completed their advanced/postgraduate diploma, they can apply to upgrade to any of the three professional grades of membership - Associate, Chartered Member or Chartered Fellow. The grade for which they apply will be dependent on the level of professional experience they have.

The CIPD Intermediate (minimum QCF level 5) or Foundation (minimum level 3) qualifications cover the knowledge necessary for Associate membership, and again students can apply for the upgrade if they have the right experience. (Without a level 7 qualification they cannot upgrade into a Chartered grade).

We're working hard to promote the message about the value of the three professional grades of membership, and in time our aim is that Associate, Chartered Member or Chartered Fellow will replace the use of 'CIPD qualified', signifying the importance of both practical experience and knowledge gained, maintained through ongoing CPD. This approach is in line with most other professions.

We do have an alternative route to gaining a professional grade of membership for those who already hold the practical experience, but not the qualification. Experience Assessment allows you to use your current and previous work experience to demonstrate you meet the criteria at the relevant level.

For further advice on individual enquiries, or membership progression, our customer services team will be happy to help, and can be contacted on 020 8612 6208.


Thanks.

Frances Overton, Membership Manager, CIPD

Frances

Who assesses a person's level of professional experience when that person comes to upgrade?  What qualification or competence does the assessor have to make that decision?

Thanks

Liz

I think the German/UK example is a good one David, because as I know you are aware, for many years Germany has rated vocational qualifications alongside academic ones and thus already incorporates some substantial measure of comparability (and understanding of that comparability) within its employment (and social) culture; however in the UK, even after 30 years of the NVQ etc., vocational qualification is almost meaningless to many employers and the general public.

Transferability of qualifications transnationally is thus never going to work so long as "user" perception even in a single country is that, say, a BA behind someone's name is more significant than, say, a NVQ5. (The latter in fact far outstripping the assessed competence of the former, even though the academic knowledge-base may be similar or, possibly more importantly, less balanced).

To use myself as an example in relation to balance: I am a Charterd FCIPD; thus, by the current standards, equivalent in knowledge to (at least) someone with an Masters in HR. Yet as part of their study they will have covered every aspect of HR to a significant level, while as I have said many times on these threads, I go glassy-eyed whenever someone mentions rewards and benefits... and pensions are a totaly foreign language! (Or they were until last December when I had to sort out the screw-up that the NHS provider had made of mine! But that's another story....). So while I will (probably) far outstrip the newly-hatched MA in some aspects of practice and understanding (and have a NEBOSH G/C to back up my H&S "second string" too), it is quite clear that someone employing me in the expectation that I will be able to provide the same generalist competence as the MA, on the basis of my "higher" professional status, will be misled. (....And I will be both out of my depth and bored to tears!).

So if a single qualification, in a single profession, can be user-misinterpreted even against the current system of standardisation, what hope is there of meaningful transnational (or even national) understanding of what all those letters really signify when it comes to doing (any) particular job.

I am not being negative here: I am merely trying to suggest that questions of equivalence are, in effect, meaningless in terms of a single standard, because as the discussion between you and Keith showed: If the aspect being considered is academic knowledge then a vocational or professional qualification has no standard point of reference within other professions' frameworks (Keith's "runner-swimmer" argument), whereas if competence in praactice is the aspect under examination then the vocational qualification can legitimately be equated with the practice the holder of a given academic grade should be able to demonstrate (based purely on their understanding of their subject). But even then the academic degree in fact gives no guarantee that its holder can actually achieve the practice expected; as someone having an engineering degree and thus a thorough understanding of gyroscopic precession and Newton's first law cannot necessarily ride a bicycle!

P

Liz, our upgrade assessors are Chartered Members & Chartered Fellows, who are currently working for an organisation in an HR role, or who work as an HR consultant. Therefore meaning their experience is current, and making them the perfect people to assess applications submitted to us. Our assessors are based both in the UK and overseas. They undertake continuous training to ensure they are kept up to date with the CIPD membership criteria.

I hope this helps.

Thanks, Frances 

Hi Everyone - Interesting post!

I would like to add something if I may....

I did the Post Graduate Diploma in Employment Law, also known as the Advanced Certificate in Employment Law with the CIPD.  It is a level 7 qualification.  I chose this particular course on the basis that it is where my interest lies, (although I am in a generalist position) and I felt would be the most beneficial for giving advice and as an Advanced Certificate and being Level 7 I thought I would get upgraded! BUT after all that hard work and I was astounded to find out that this particular level 7 qualification does not 'count' in terms of membership grade at all!!  Bizarre.

So, as a result I am the proud owner of this level 7 qualification in Employment Law coupled with 12 years experience in HR and Recruitment and ta da, I get to stay with my 'Affiliate' membership.  

Makes no sense to me....

Louise

Hi Louise, it will be little consolation, but I am in the same boat (ACEL but not MCIPD).

Fortunately, I've never knowingly been turned down for a job because of my lack of letters, which is just as well because I'm a useless student!  

Sadly, so many qualifications seem like the Holy Grail until you have them.  Then you need more experience or some other just-of-of-reach criterion.  GCSEs to A Levels, then A levels to Degrees, and so on.  I feel sorry for the recent crop of graduates who rather than being one in ten are one in two, so then unless they have a first....etc.

Trying to be a regular on this forum is probably the best continuos development I've ever had, judging by the quantity of things I look up because I don't necessarily know the full answer.

Nick 

Echoing David's previous comment about 'facts' - I think the facts appear yet to be established in terms of CIPD thinking and benchmarking which gives acceptance to the core grades of membership, which appear to be leading some to study a variety of paths which may (or may not) lead them to succesful membership at whatever level.

I definitely think its worthy of someone involved in CIPD grading to jump in here and establish the train of thought, especially for others considering the various paths to membership grades...

Hi Josy and Jason

 Sadly, no-one from CIPD has deigned to comment upon my previous post, of  22 August. so I remain a bit perplexed - along with you, Josy.

I'll try - although to be fair Frances did contribute a pretty lengthy post and a follow-up.

Steve 

I've only just noticed this thread and have been reading with interest!  It's a subject dear to my heart as one of my greatest regrets is the choice I made many years ago between doing a degree or doing my CIPD, when offered sponsorship by Tesco.  I chose the degree and thoroughly enjoyed gaining my BSc in Psychology, most of which included getting 1sts in modules on occupational psychology, experimental psychology, research, psychometrics, systems thinking and so on (which are lots of things which have come in handy working in HR, and none of which can be counted towards CIPD).

It hasn't been a problem until recent years, and previously I wouldn't have changed a thing, but now I find that I am not valued in my chosen profession of the past 27 years because I am not CIPD qualified.  When returning to the profession after a break with my children I end up having to take a lowly assistant job on half the salary I used to earn. Thankfully, I have been promoted twice and am now back to the level I was before (albeit temporarily), as I have been able to prove what I know and what I can do.  But still that holy grail of being thought of at MCIPD level eludes me (well, at the moment, any way!). The deadline of needing to complete my PAC by Dec 2013 is weighing heavily at the moment - I love my work and I like to spend my time outside work researching the issues I face 'here and now' so that I can make a valuable contribution to the organisation I work for (and this forum is invaluable for that).  I don't like having to keep on documenting what I have done over the years (as I have to do for the PAC) in order to prove that I can match someone who has been to night school for a couple of years.  It's a bit frustrating to think that when I get MCIPD it probably won't mean much in comparison to other professions.  It should, in my mind, show that not only am I academically comparable to a post grad, but also that I have the practical experience to do the job competently. 

Anyway, rant over.  I should have gone to night school for a couple of years!   I think I might file some more documents in my PAC portfolio before going to sleep tonight!   When I do get MCIPD, I will post a "cheer" on here!