Hi Emma

Plenty of people seem successfully to complete at Level 7 with either zero or only partial prior vocational experience. I’d therefore put prior vocational experience in the ‘desirable but not essential’ category.

Far more important I think is your personal aptitude for study at Level 7. I hasten to add that my detailed overall knowledge of the current specific content is limited indeed - back in the distant past when I qualified, the syllabus was very very different.......That said, I’d think on balance that if you’re reasonably sure of your ability to study at Level 7, then skipping the L5 and goin straight to the L7 could be a lot quicker and better use of your and / or your employers time and resources.

In order to work effectively at Adviser Level, you’ll need to develop the necessary vocational competence, which neither L5 nor L7 ‘ book learning’ in itself can give you - although of course this ‘underpinning knowledge’ *ought* to be delivered n a complementary and integrated manner alongside vocational competence development. But assuming you want and are suitable in terms of innate ability to work in a full chartered professional as opposed to Technician role then maybe go with the L7 directly - especially if the course syllabus and those who deliver it take every possible opportunity to integrate it with your workplace experience.

Thus, in summary, probably either way will do and L5 first is probably the most thorough and more gentle and safer route to take - but not necessarily on balance the better one for your particular personal circumstances.

Sorry to have to sit on the fence with this, but do hope at least a little of it helps

In reply to David:

PS

Forgot to mention that your local CIPD Branch and / or CIPD HQ Membership Development people ought to be able to advise you in detail about this.

In reply to David:

It also depends on your academic experiences, the higher the better if you do not have much practical experience
Trust your boss

Don't even attempt to do Level 7, it was designed for Senior HR Managers and Directors, true a lot of people have passed it without working at that level but they probably haven't gained much in the way of knowledge or development from doing it especially applying what they are supposed to have learnt.

In reply to Paul:

I think I’d be inclined to disagree with this, sorry Paul, but Level 7 is not just for Senior HR folk - plenty of people study this curriculum at masters level with little/no exposure to the world of work.

I studied Level 3, found it to be a waste of my time and so went straight to Level 7. I started the qualification when I was in an HR advisor type role and passed exams and assignments with merit. I’m now in an HR BP role (which I believe my part qualification helped me to secure) and will be finishing Level 7 in November.

I would agree that having a degree or higher education already under your belt would be helpful in terms of navigating the exams and assignments, and don’t underestimate it is hard work, but do you need to be an HR Director to be able to successfully complete the qualification? No. I’ve been to workshops as part of my course and met many fellow students who are at the same level as HR BP or HR advisor and are getting along just fine. I actually haven’t come across an HRD student....

Hope this helps.

Interesting series of posts which for me illustrate some very different perceptions of what the CIPD level 7 qualification seeks to do, and there really are two very different schools of thought displayed in this and other recent posts. Both schools agree that the qualification aims to confirm that the holder has acquired the technical knowledge that is a prerequisite to undertaking certain tasks, but they seem to differ in the following way :

• The first school also seems to hold an underlying belief (wish?) that the qualification also certifies that a demonstrated ability has been tested, showing that the person knows how to apply these skills appropriately in a range of different professional environments.
• The second school differs in the belief that simply having acquired knowledge is in itself no guarantee of an ability to apply it appropriately, and that ultimately this competency can really only be acquired by facing a variety of real-life situations;  this usually calls for several years of work in a more senior position, applying personal professional judgement, where "right" answers rarely exist, and specific business contexts will drive the selection of the most appropriate solution..

My own experience of teaching the comp & ben parts of on an MBA in international HR, and also acting as examiner/assessor for certifying specific competencies in the Comp & Ben area has allowed me to see brilliant students who sailed through the academic qualification with no problems, but then ran into a brick wall when faced with orally assessed case studies which called for abilities like :

• selecting and coordinating multi-functional teams on a major HR project
• identifying appropriate sources (internal and external) to be called upon to undertake a position analysis requested by senior management in an area where legislation is about to change or has recently changed (not an unusual situation).
• .......

Students with little experience in applying this knowledge in varying operational situations were often at a loss to explain how they would proceed with this type of (fairly basic) problem - consequently although they passed the MBA examinations, they failed to achieve a certification of particular professional applies skills. Some of them came back 3-4 years later for certification tests, and after having had the chance to cut their teeth applying the knowledge, had less difficulty in being certified.

In reply to Ray:

Interesting post Ray, I agree there are definitely two different schools of thought here, but please don’t think I am saying that someone who can study Level 7 can then perform in the workplace to the same level as an HR Director or equivalent with extensive experience. I believe that operational experience is far more important than the theoretical knowledge that can be acquired through Level 7, but it is a chicken and egg situation.

I have seen so many job adverts for HR Advisor or HR BP roles that look for CIPD Level 7 qualifications. How can this be right or fair if the qualification is only designed for Senior/Directors? If someone is looking to move into these types of role I would absolutely encourage them to study Level 7 as it is my firm belief it is attractive on the CV to employers and something that they have come to expect, rightly or wrongly. Therefore if the OP has a desire to step up/progress, I feel it would be wrong to discourage her from studying Level 7.

In reply to Sophie Haselton:

@ Sophie

It is exactly divergence of vision that creates the problem that you outline. My point really is that the level 7 qualification is not IMHO a certification that the appropriate level of specific competencies have been acquired to use these skills in an operational context.

I have no problem with people wanting to increase or improve on their technical knowledge - that will almost always be a good thing. The real challenge for them will be to get themselves in a situation where this deeper technical knowledge will be of operational use in the job that they have or even the next one in their career.

The other side of the issue is one of companies who recruit and overstate the level of qualification that is needed for the job in question, in the belief that the qualification guarantees the existence of appropriate operational competencies - not a rare occurence, believe me. Often this can produce 2 results :

• frustrated new employees who are under-utilised, 
• frustrated employers when their new employee is seen as not operating at the expected level

To be honest, the different membership grades offer a sound opportunity to obtain the equivalent of a competencies certification, and a level 7 qualification without MCIPD would provoke some deep questioning from me at interview stage. Both routes are relevant for different purposes - knowledge via examination and certification via membership levels.

Hi Emma,

I studied level 3 without a job in HR and went into an Advisor role shortly after finishing. Since then I have worked at Officer, Manager and am now Head of HR and am currently studying Level 7. I am finding it a difficult jump (its been 20 years since I studied my degree) and whilst I have some great experience and fantastic exposure (I work in SME's). I am self funding but if i were younger and my company was funding I would have followed the full 3/5/7 pathway. Not only is it a massive jump in knowledge and experience from 3 to 7 but also the style in which you study is vastly different too.

I personally wouldn't have felt comfortable going to 7 without the exposure in the business that I currently have.

Best of luck with your decision.

Vicki

In reply to Sophie Haselton:

Are you are proper HRBP or HRBP aka HR Advisor? I suspect the latter operating at Operational Level. You only have to trawl through the posts in the section to see people struggling with Level 5. Personally, I think L7 is easier nowadays than the old PDS with 9 exams,11 assignments and management report over three years.

In reply to Paul:

Hi Paul

The old PDS does sound more arduous I agree but if L7 is “easier nowadays” then why can’t HR Advisors do it? It probably makes sense to say that only people struggling will ask for help on the forum, I expect for every HRA struggling with Level 5 and asking for help on here, there will be 20 others who are smashing through it no problems who don’t need to post.

I’m not sure how this question contributes to the discussion but I hope I’d meet your definition of a proper HR BP. I partner three Directors and their respective senior management teams, and am currently the HR lead on a strategic operating model change for a business area of over 900 people?

:-)

In reply to Sophie Haselton:

Because it is set at Strategic level, HR Advisors are Operational, it is a bit of overkill because they won't be able to apply what they are learning. When L5 came along it filled a huge gap because you had people completing the old Certificate in Personel Practice who thought that their assignment only course, was the hardest thing they ever did, got a shock when they were faced with assignments and exams on Strategy on the next level, everyone was funnelled into the L7 and a huge amount of people were stuck in what was the Graduate grade, because they didn't do a job that gave them enough experience at management level to gain MIPD/MCIPD. The current set up is a bit more thought out, L3 HR Assistant, L5 HR Advisor to HR Manager L7 HRBP to HR Director. What has upset the apple cart is where once Universities that were running CIPD accredited Masters used to be very picky about who they let on the HR courses, I know some that stipulated you had to be working at management level and be able to apply and put into practice what you were learning, now they want bums on seats so anyone with a cheque book/credit card can get on a course.

Hi Emma.
I am a lecturer and course leader on CIPD courses. Most students find the jump just from level 3 to level 5 a very steep learning curve. To go straight from level 3 to level 7 - effectively A level equivalent to post-graduate - is likely to be a huge jump especially as the level 7 study will be very intensive but also very much self-directed. I would not accept someone going on to a level 7 course without substantial HR management experience and or a level 5 CIPD qualification or degree level business-related qualification.
Hope this helps.
Robert Hill

Hi Emma

My personal experience is L3 to L5 was a *huge* step up in itself.

I pretty much floated through L3 and thought it was a total waste of my time but L5 is a very different beast altogether. I was tempted to do my L7 straight from L3 and I'm so glad I didn't. I'm struggling a little with L5 despite having nearly 5 years HR advisory level experience as I've been fortunate enough to not have had many 'technical' HR problems to deal with. If someone has been a HR Advisor for a year for a massive organisation with problems every day they would probably have more knowledge than me and find it much easier.

To be honest after my L5 that's it for me as I know L7 will be way too much stress.

You can find copies of the assignment questions online, that might give you an idea of the level of study to help you decide.

In reply to Eastleigh College:

Thanks I have had a meeting with my level 3 tutor and we discussed this in great lengths and she agreed with you. Maybe one day in the future i will be ready.

Thanks