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Does the CIPD Level 7 alone cut the ice or longevity ultimately works and gets the job?

Andre

I often read posts here about HR Administrators who are frustrated because they have many years of experience in HR and all the necessary qualifications, yet still can't move up to an HR Advisor level role.

However, is either part of or the main reason primarily due to the fact that they are not currently working as or have never previously worked as an HR Advisor, so although they may hold the CIPD Level 7, are purely relying on that alone but still do not have the relevant and necessary level of matching experience?

Thus, and more to the point, even if they obtained such a role, could they actually do the job from a capability standpoint, which is perhaps a key concern in the mind of employers?

There is an age old saying that 'if you want a job in Dubai, you already need to be in Dubai.' It is ten times more difficult trying to do and set it up from the UK via a Skype interview. 

And the same in this case. If you want to become an HR Advisor or an HRBP, you already essentially need to currently be one, working as one and also hold a demonstrated track record of experience as one for many years. You are either one or not.  

Very few Junior or Trainee HR Advisor or HRBP roles exist, as they all presume as a certain prerequisite x amount of years of experience behind you. Chances are that people are also directly competing with Senior HR Advisors and Senior HRBP's for these roles as well. 

A course, however good, is still not the same or a direct compensatory substitute for experience. At the end of the day it is not a job. 

Thus, it may be a very complex and rigid system, but is the fact of the matter here that there is no real easy answer or solution to this, which is another 'catch 22' and 'chicken and egg' scenario. You either by hook or crook somehow 'bridge the experience gap' or not. 

However, can what ultimately do it and indeed break the ice is that if you pay your dues, put in the time and clock up some 5-10 years experience as an HR Administrator, the sheer longevity of a decade's worth of time served behind you mean that you should automatically translate and evolve into default into becoming one? 

You are not presently working as one, but you are sitting in that environment on a daily basis with your eyes and ears open and hence exposed to all the conversations going on around you by them. 

Any thoughts?

           

    

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  • Hi Andre,

    IMHO I would disagree. Yes the right qualifications and years of experience can help you get a foot in the door in terms of an interview, but ultimately its the person the company will hire.

    I have a non HR related degree (Chemistry) and after working in a laboratory and in recruitment at 30 I changed career paths and moved into HR with no relevant qualifications. I've been working in HR for 7 years, my first role was as a HR Officer, I then moved into a HR advisor role than as a standalone HR Manager for a SME. I only gained my CIPD qualification whilst i was working as a HR Manager and not having a qualification up until that point hasn't hampered my progress. I've worked in a number of industry's public sector, rail, communications and localisation.

    So while on paper I've potential looked like a weak candidate, I've always made sure my CV highlights my strength, transferable skills and value I've added to the team or business. I've always been proactive in my career advancement and fortunately this has worked well in interview as I've demonstrated skills that my past employers have been looking for.

    I agree with Keith, if you're getting interview but not progressing further i would focus on trying to improve your interview skills and techniques.
  • in reply to Sarah Mackie
    Could trying to set up my own Peninsula HR Consulting type and style of business be a solution here?
Reply Children
  • in reply to Andre
    Hi Andre

    I agree with Keith’s very sound and measured responses above and I doubt self employment is the answer - it’s really not that easy.

    You would still need a portfolio of experience at management level if you hope to make any regular, ‘real’ money by getting project work and/or retainer fees; otherwise how do you propose to persuade a client to appoint you to work on their behalf? Also, you have to be prepared to market and network yourself, eg; connecting with local employment lawyers, professional services organisations, etc.

    Perhaps seeking out some voluntary project work might help boost your CV but, unfortunately you find yourself in the unfortunate position of being “over qualified” and “under experienced” so you need to play up the experience you do have and highlight to real benefits you offer.
  • in reply to Jayne
    I have HR experience. It is however HR Administrator experience and not HR Director experience. Are people however 'looking down' on my job title despite being professionally qualified?
  • in reply to Andre
    No one is looking down on you.

    However people don’t tend to hire self employed / interim / consultant HR Administrators or even HR Advisers. They tend to want to hire people who have experience at operating at HRBP / Specialist / HRD Level to solve particular challenges based on their previous experience.

    Your challenge will be persuading potential clients to employ you based not on your experience but on your qualifications alone. Most people have the option of hiring an interim with both ( and many interims tend to have both experience and qualifications at a higher level than some of the roles they take on ).
  • in reply to Andre
    I can only comment on what I think, not others and I’m not looking down on your job title. I’m not that hung up on what you call yourself.

    Your Admin role isn’t the same as another admin role if you work in a different sector, size of business, team, etc.

    Perhaps you carry out tasks that are “above” your job title?

    Ultimately, I want you to have proven experience at the level I’m looking to employ you at, so you need to “sell” your experience and the outcomes (value) of the work you do.

    Also, I haven’t read all of your previous posts, so forgive me for asking what you’re doing in your current role to stretch yourself? Have you exhausted all the opportunities you have available to you? What development goals have you agreed with your Manager, what projects have you volunteered for or suggested, which senior people have you asked to shadow, etc?
  • in reply to Jayne

    It is a strict job description with clearly defined parameters of duties, responsibilities and a scope of authority, with a clear demarcation line and hierarchy in terms of acting in or outside of your pay grade. The fact of the matter is that you focus on the job that you are employed and paid to do, as there is also a clear distinction between management and non management employees.

    That has actually been the same in all of the jobs that I have held which may partly explain this as:

    (1) They did not promote from within;

    (2) They always filled higher level vacancies with external candidates;

    (3) Only Managers work on projects and attend meetings;

    (4) They don't have or accommodate shadowing. You are meant to be at your desk doing your own job instead.

  • in reply to Andre
    What response have you received when you've asked your line manager to consider doing something different to benefit your development "in all of the jobs that [you've] held"?

    If the answer is that you haven't tried or you've given up at the first hurdle because of the reasons you mention above, then you might give some consideration to who and what is actually holding you back, ie; whether it is you rather than "all of the" employers you have had.

    However, if the answer is that you've been shot down every single time (not just once in each job but multiple times by multiple people), why is that? Is HR for you - if they're still employing you, surely that's not their reason!?

    So, if the reasons given are not to do with you but the company, then perhaps you could consider choosing a (potentially sideways) move with a different type of employer where there is a culture of training and developing talent within? I understand that you want to push forward, but sometimes you need to make a strategic move to get what you need. Perhaps you could do some research and find some employers you think would be more supportive and then actively seek out employment with them (nb: this isn't a quick fix, it may be a long haul!).

    The reason I'm suggesting this is that like many people, I stumbled into HR many moons ago and I am qualified by experience I work in a business where we still have training contracts, ie; people join us and they train on the job and via professional qualification pathways. However, the lack of a certificate confirming my qualification has not held me back because the culture of the organisation is such that we actively encourage people to work outside their job descriptions, challenge themselves and others and that applies to everyone, not just the "trainees".

    Or, as previously suggested, look for volunteer opportunities or seek work experience with specialist HR consultancies.

    In any event, be prepared to do something different if doing the same isn't working for you; taking charge and responsibility is likely a more healthy and potentially more successful use of your energies.