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'Dismissed on the grounds of redundancy'

Mark

Apologies if this is the wrong place to put this or if the public asking questions of the CIPD community in this way is not on.

I would be grateful for some advice please.

I am a Podiatrist working in the NHS. I have been in the same place of work for 23 years although I dropped 2 days a few years ago to work part time in another trust.

I am currently band 7 (in both jobs)  and have been for about 20 years. I specialise in musculoskeletal conditions and minor surgery. All my training (including MSc) and experience is in that area.

My department is being restructured and moving over exclusively to high risk foot care (diabetes work) something I have no specialist knowledge or interest in. I was offered an interview as Band 8 team lead which I declined and asked to apply for a band 7 diabetes lead role. Even though I don't have the diabetes experience I interviewed and the correct person got the job (not me).

With the restructure my post has been made redundant.

In the last week of consultation my junior colleague handed in his notice so I was offered that job, band 6 diabetes specialist despite being told that there would be no cross band matching and any match would have to be 75% similar. It is a lower role with less status and responsibility and a completely alien area of my profession. I have been offered pay protection for 3 years and training. I am the only person in the department negatively affected (I also happen to be the most qualified).

I took legal advice from a solicitor and union. I was told that proving that SAE is not suitable is hard and legal representation is expensive. As a result my union declined to help me and I can not afford the legal costs. So at this point my choice is to take the SAE or leave. I had 2 meetings without prejudice at my request.

I declined the SAE (the job is really not for me) and as a result I have been given notice of dismissal on the grounds of redundancy. No package has been offered obviously. I have asked to not serve my full notice as i am finding the whole process stressful and prefer to be out. We have compromised on 1 month notice rather than three.

After deciding that I cant go forward with any legal challenge I was surprised in the formal meeting to be told that I had the right to appeal. I hadn't considered an appeal. I was told that this was mainly to appeal the consultation process (that has generally been handled correctly).

The questions I have are;

How does an appeal differ from a tribunal?

Is it normal to self represent at an appeal (can afford legal fees)?

Is the suitability of SAE something that is suitable for appeal?

What are the chances (obviously without know the intimate details of the case)?

With huge thanks in advance and apologies again if this is against forum etiquette etc.

Parents
  • Update:
    I had a call back from ACAS. I have been offered 3 months pay. This is for commercial reasons rather than an admission of wrong doing.

    ACAS told me that it is rare for an NHS trust to make an offer as they have to get permission from the treasury.
  • in reply to Mark
    Hi Mark,

    Might be useful to chip in here from an NHS perspective on the ACAS comment, but apologies if i'm repeating what others have said elsewhere.

    NHS organisations are supposed to get permission from the HM Treasury for any payment they make to which the employee is not contractually entitled.

    However I don't think they will have done this, what I imagine they are doing is a bit of a fudge (!) and offering to pay your full notice period (i think you said you were B8a, so this is 3 months usually) as Pay In Lieu Of Notice.

    I say 'fudge', as I think I also saw somewhere that you had agreed a one month notice period so in offering you 3 months pay they are (technically) only covered for the remaining 2 months without seeking approval. That fact however is the trusts risk to take in offering you that 3 months pay.

    I also saw that you have another job in a trust closer to home which you started the following week after your termination. Under NHS AfC Redundancy T&Cs Section 16, you would need to repay any redundancy payment to your previous employer if you secure NHS employment within 4 weeks of your termination date.

    I don't know what a tribunal view on that particular provision would be; given that it essentially relies on the fact that any other role within the NHS is Suitable Alternative Employment. I note from a couple of posts back in mid April that there was discussion about other NHS organisations being possibly considered 'associated employers' although this doesn't appear to have been something explicitly considered by a tribunal previously, so it is potentially a new and contentious point.

    I agree wholeheartedly with the stance that has been taken before that if you are not being paid something that you are entitled to that pursuing this would be a reasonable thing for you to do. However the risk being that going through all this and a tribunal agrees you should have had a redundancy payment, but then due to commencing NHS employment within 4 weeks of leaving, you then find out that you are not entitled to it.

    I have cycled through the posts and responses and I must say that I agree that the whole debacle has been a sorry mess from beginning to end, and I hope you manage to get something by way of a response, result, closure on this whole thing.
  • in reply to Robin
    An invaluable ‘chip’, IMHO, Robin - summarises the thing most acutely!
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