Mark - I think you just proved Amanda's point there about how the quality of some of these discussions could be improved. Not the most constructive posting I have ever seen.

Hi Anna

I think the first is a very good idea and I know of the technique referred to in your second both from my late father (an Accountant, but otherwise a nice enough guy) and my time at YouGov.

I'm not sure it would be quite fair to make the assumptions of nominal distribution for "Communities" on membership as a whole as "awareness" could itself create an anomaly (i.e. some members may know of it/its function others do not) but it possibly would to "readers" and that readership statistic could be extrapolated with more information.

What were also very interesting (and "real" data!) were the stat's relating to "Communities" which we heard at last year's conference suggesting that both readership and contribution are far higher than "norms" for similar sites.

Peter

PS, Amanda: Does getting a principle of Quantum Physics, Mathmatical Distribution theory and Schroedinger into the act raise the quality of debate?

....or am I being frivilous again? :-) :-)

Ruth,

If you're tying to make a point that people who don't express an opinion are successfully making another altogether more confusing point/attitude - then I think all logical argument goes out the window.

But you didn't make that point, you simply made a jibe - touche.

Thanks for picking it up Anna and Peter.

8/10 cat owners prefer whiskas - the other two could have died for all we know - how is their 'no response' in any way meaningful?

 

Only the activists and extremists contribute - only they are passionate enough to change things.

If we save one HR life, then it's worth doing :)

It's not just about numbers. Much about community is subtle and often difficult to express in written form. However, many people do get huge value from this forum, and share this with us...

“Thanks everyone for the brilliant suggestions, and to the couple of people who have sent private messages. I’m in a good position to proceed now” - Jennifer Rowlands, 23 Feb ’10

“Thank you all again for your very useful advice and comments; I always find this a useful forum for the brain picking of sometimes unusual circumstances!” - Ann Swan, 17 Feb ’10

“Thanks for all your contributions; they've been really useful and certainly given me what I need to go back and challenge the current way of doing things... as it's really not working” - Paula Brown, 9 Feb ’10

“I love these forums! I’m currently studying an MBA in HR and for me I learn something new every day. It’s one of the websites I make a point of visiting every day!” - Helen Vass, 1 Feb ’10

“I am returning to work after a long child-centred career break and have used some of my spare time in the last few months to read and inwardly digest these discussions. Reading your words of wisdom has not only given me the confidence that yes, my instincts are still intact, but that I am now much more up to speed on current issues. I want to say how much I appreciate the time and effort that is put into answering these questions. I feel I have got to know some of you quite well! Thank you to the CIPD too for providing the wherewithal.” - Rebecca Laird, 30 Jan ’10

“Thank you again to everyone for your contributions; I’m amazed at the level of response that my little post sparked off. It was the first one I have ever posted and I wasn’t sure what sort of response there would be.” - Judy Howarth, 28 Jan ’10

“This is the first time I have read a Communities page, and have found it quite illuminating! It is heartening to know that people who have to make/enforce such decisions do give them serious thought, even if the issue seems clear-cut at the outset.” - Rachel Clark, 27 Jan ’10

“Many thanks to all contributors. It is so refreshing to get different perspectives on individual issues.” - Christopher Blyth, 30 Nov ‘09

“That is just brilliant advice. This is why I love the Communities - you always get great views based on all levels of experience in the workplace.” - Rachael Titley, 16 Oct ‘09

“I am very impressed and pleased with the level of support shown by CIPD members. Any career shift can be daunting, especially at this time, but such assistance is extremely helpful." - Ben Saunders, 3 Sept ’09

“Thank you both for your feedback... It has been really useful particularly as I’m the only HR person within the organisation and have no one to bounce my thoughts off.” - Helen Matthews, 27 Aug ’09

That does it for me.

And those are just the public ones from the last six months, or so.

Steve

Not so Mark: You just climbed out of the trap and then fell back in there! 8/10 cat owners (say) their cats prefer Whiskas (how do they know, did they ask them or ask them to fill out a questionnaire?) and you correctly therefore note that we have no data on the other two... but not having that data means we cannot judge whether the cats (allegedly) didn't like; didn't taste ....or died.

By the same criteria we cannot know whether either all the activists and extremists are contributing, nor whether all those who do contribute are activists/extremists; or indeed, if they are, whether they want change: One can be actively and extremely opposed to change: Look at the RC Church on homosexuality, women priests or contraception for instance!.

Does the lack of comment from the RC faithful mean there are no homosexuals, women or families overburdened with children within the Church who would like there to be change? Of course there it doesn't! It means that they simply do not feel empowered to comment given the church's implacable opposition!

The argument that all comment is dissent and/or that all comment (and/or dissent) comes from activists or extremists has historically also had some terrifying implications, for this is the argument which justifies and underpins oppression, be it the religious oppression of the inquisition; or the political repression of the Stalinist Soviet Union.

I am sure this is a road none of us would wish to tread and thus "only activists comment" (etc.) an assumption none of us would make about our colleagues!

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" is a key truth of any statistic and of any debate. "No comment" does not mean "No" any more than it means "Yes",

...And thus colleagues' disinclination to accept "....................." as being a valid attitude or opinion rather than "I am unbiased" or some other possible interpretation is, surely, not a jibe but respect of your right to be assumed to give no information from what you have given; which is: No comment. 

"No comment" as a position or opinion cannot be built upon (except by the press) and thus is indeed literally "not constructive" {:-)

Peter 

Can only really add that I have found the community very informative and helpful in the 14 or so months that I have been using / contributing to it.  I do agree with Amanda that some of the items posted for comment do appear to lack in quality - but then it does depend from where we're standing.  Like many contributors I have more years experience than I care to remember and only wish there had been the forum available when I started out in HR - i am sure many of my questions then would have seemed to lack quality to those more experienced.  As Steve intimates, offerign advice to colleagues with problems they are facing is rewarding in itself - so long as people remember it is only my opinion and not necessarily correct!  But then as has been posted above, others with more experience will usually correct or clarify any issues when necessary.  Prior to 14 months ago I didn't really know it existed!

Much of the debate raised is thought provoking (as is this one) and stimulating.  If the topic is in an area about which i have no interest or knowledge I don't usually open it - but just do so for those which i think will be interesting and helpful - to me or others.

Maybe we could have a topic choice for "debate" or "support / advice" so that it is clear what the posting is looking for without having to read it all - then we could make a judgement about whether to open and read it?

Overall though a great resource and, despite the inevitable shortcomings in some areas (duplication etc) it would be a shame not to have it!

Peter

Steve is of course paid to say and collect things like that, (voiced on behalf of my cat - Schroedinger's) all other opinions may have less of a fiscal interest.

I do think there is some merit in separating the thoughtful from the transactional. Some days this reads less like a community (how do you read one?) and more like ask Deidre.

Social scientists tell us we make our meaning through conversations, which is the way these communities seem to work. Deidre merely offers her own opinion, although I will accept that many people feel compelled to write to her!

Anna, I agree with you, and here's my interpretation.

Can't these communities just be whatever they are on the day, or in the moment - meeting the needs of whoever chooses to read, contribute, answer or whatever is their leaning? 

Personally, what I get out of these is learning through others expertise, opinion, questions, answers and thoughts and an opportunity to help others where I can or choose to.    I welcome the fact that topics are not filtered and is a bit of a jumble of opinions, cries for help, debates, occasionally disagreements and most often, thoughtful development of ideas and intelligent expositions of various perspectives.  It is more reflective of life that way, and richer for it.

Even the occasional "lazy" post where someone could quite clearly google what we all can, gets a gentle steer in the appropriate direction to help them think for themselves.

 

 

There is a inference here that a 'quality' discussion is in someway superior to any other kinds.

Even if it is, what's wrong with 'non quality discussions'?

...and most particularly David: Who defines what is a quality discussion? :-)

Here; here, Megan; and Re you last point: Although (as I have said above) I do not condone people trying to wheedle exam answers or workplace solutions they should be resolving themselves out of "communities" I have not problem with open requests of the: "Hey guys, has anyone got an XXX policy off the shelf that I can build on..." variety, or people asking for reviews of exam-work they've already done, or guidance on whether their planned approach seems appropriate.

P

If I may, a general observation:

I do think the Communities exceedingly useful, even for reason that 'all HR life is there' - with problems like those recounted here daily, who needs coursework or textbook scenarios ??

And, even if one's own self or workplace hasn't encountered most of  these problems, it's still potentially valuable to read up on the worst-case scenarios and to be prepared if similar ever happens - pehaps using the search facilities to find it again.

Not sure whether the 'quality of discussions' is too relevant in this context, assuming that the majority of the responses reflect sensible and informed professional judgments.

Often, the responses of others are based on their own past experience, so aren't just hypothetical.

Just as there's rarely any single 'right' answer to many problems raised here, I think there's rarely any very meaningful distinction to be made between that which is 'quality' and that which is dross: it merely reflects our stock in trade, which is people.

I find communities really useful.  Although I tend not to ask questions (lucky enough to have some very knowledgeable colleagues for that), I find that I learn a lot from other people's questions, and the responses give, and some of it has come in handy several months after reading it.  Also, sometimes what starts as a simple question does turn into a debate - such as the pet bereavement thread recently.

Emily

I've come to this discussion a bit late thanks to a busy few days but I have to say, Megan sums it up for me!  These Communities are a cross section of HR life and I think they give us a great overview of HR across the UK.

One thing I've observed is that it's the Q & A type questions that tend to get the most answers - the ones prompting debate seem to get far fewer answers, such as the ones in the Strategic HR area, and seem to be read by far fewer people.  I think this tells us a little bit about what most people want from the forums!  Maybe we should ask ourselves why people don't respond to these debate type questions and see how we can reframe our posts to encourage that debate?  Admittedly my one attempt at provoking a debate (the infamou sacking by text thread *grin*) didn't provoke the kind of debate I'd hoped for as most people couldn't see past the provocative title to the content!

These Communities are dynamic and evolve based on what we, the contributors, put into them - if we want more debate, lets try and get more debates going and make them the type of debates people want to respond to.

Jackie

 

Sorry, I meant to say one other thing and forgot (not going to blame the baby brain as apparently scientists have proved that's a myth).

One of the reasons i don't contribute as often as I might is that my answer would be identical to something that someone else has posted and if a few people have agreed with that answer, I tend to think that me adding my agreement won't necessarily add anything to the discussion.  So perhaps that's another reaon why people don't contribute?

Jackie