Redundancy- reasonable job - Feedback - Community Feedback

6 Redundancy- reasonable job

19 Jun, 2023 20:16

I have worked in an inpatient mental health unit for 10 years. The trust has created a new community service but they didn't provide a budget for it....so they are proposing that they move some of our inpatient staff to this community post

They have said that redundancy is "very unlikely" as this post is reasonable and similar. They said this before consultation in the written proposal -- so before hearing staff's views on whether it was a reasonable offer...

I want to fight for redundancy as

1) cost implications with fuel, wear and tear to car and insurance

2) its harder for my childcare as I could be 15miles away from nursery and hit traffic rather than the 4miles I am away now

3) written proposal they have said caseload could be "up to 180" and when I fed back that this is too higher responsibility due to a x4 my current caseload they said that because its "up to" and there are only currently 58 awaiting this service that this is a reasonable job offer

4) my passion is for inpatient not community demonstrated by 3/4 of my career being in inpatient services

Have I got a chance of winning if I take it to tribunal?

Our consultations are not being minuted due to the amount of admin this was cause - I thought that wasn't fair either

Thanks

Belinda

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Steve Bridger | 0 Posts

Community Manager

20 Jun, 2023 08:59

Hi Belinda... thanks for posting and I'm sure someone will be along v shortly to offer some advice and support.

On a moderator note... have you posted using Claire's account? I'm not gooing to disallow it or anything (!)... just wanted to ensure the community platform is working as it should.
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David | 0 Posts

20 Jun, 2023 09:29

In reply to Steve Bridger:

Hi Belinda

Can’t be sure as don’t have the complete picture but sounds as if you may have quite strong grounds for formally stating to them that you don’t regard the proposed new role as suitable alternative employment and you are reasonably refusing it for the following main reasons. (List them) ((If the new role is going to be significantly unsuitable for you *personally* ( not the employer ) then that’s the test). Consultations don’t necessarily need to be minuted but best to put what I said in writing to them and ask them for a written response to your rejection

Get back for further guidance if needs be
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Claire | 0 Posts

20 Jun, 2023 19:33

In reply to David:
Thank you so much, that's really helpful. They have moved the 1:1 meetings until next week due to HR availability so I will update you how it goes and put it in writing to them
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Robey | 0 Posts

21 Jun, 2023 08:20

Is this a private health institution or part of the NHS? I'm going to assume it's NHS.

Are you an RMN or some other kind of mental health professional? Are you a member of a union? I'm going to assume you're an RMN and member of the RCN.

1. Speak to your union rep and/or contact your union helpline for the support of a regional officer.

2. Generally, a decision as to whether a role is suitable alternative employment (SAE) is not unilateral. An employer can state that they believe that a role is SAE, but if the employee disagrees and has reasonable grounds for doing so, a tribunal will tend to side with the employee. The point being that whilst a job may be 70% similar in terms of job description, an individual's circumstances may not align as well with the new job as with the old one. Public sector bodies, in particular, are very unlikely to insist on SAE if the employee disagrees.

So, assuming you a nurse and an RCN member and inside the NHS, the odds are that, if you disagree that it is SAE, have reasonable grounds for doing so and have the support of your union, the employer will capitulate and make you redundant.
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Peter Stanway | 0 Posts

21 Jun, 2023 09:05

In reply to Robey:
There is also a possible indirect discrimination angle as Claire has alluded to childcare responsibilities.
The trick is to persuade them rather than having to fight at ET
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David | 0 Posts

21 Jun, 2023 16:17

In reply to Peter Stanway:
Indeed! - sadly one colleague on here had to go as far as the Employment Appeals Tribunal because NHS HR folk wouldn't / couldn't settle the matter out of court but preferred to squander what must have been many tens of thousands of pounds of taxpayers' NHS money on legal fees to fight at ET.
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