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8 Employment Problems for older person

J | 0 Posts

16 Jul, 2019 18:20

Hi all,

Just wondering if anyone had any thoughts regarding the following situation. My husband has been a manager for shops within a very large company for 30 years. He has been manager for the current shop for 19 years, Many years ago, the requirements changed and he was fine. In the last year, there have been further changes and additions. Mainly the staffing for his shop which used to be done by the Area Manager. Husband comes home and, at 10pm at night, is having to mess about on the computer trying to sort out staffing - unfortunately, in the last 6 months, there have been minimal pickings for it. Many possible people are either unable to work alone, unable due to childcare and other reasons. Husband was initially called to a disciplinary about 4 months ago where he had to justify what had been occurring.

Then they said improvements had to be made - improvements were indeed seen but some were not. His next meeting is next week. Yesterday, an Area Manager turned up stating he had only come so far in order to see my husband to 'warn him' about the meeting as he felt it was only fair (allegedly). He offered my husband to step down to a lower level as he didn't want to sack him. The lower level means for my husband (69 years old next month) to get £8.61 for a 35 hour week as a person who used to be called a 'cashier' - ergo, he would be on the same wage as a kid of 20 who has been working in the industry for a month. As it was, he was only on £9.61 but on a 39 hour week.

There was a rumour at the end of last year about furthers shops being closed down across the country so husband is thinking that the company may be trying to avoid the redundancy pittance he would get. Of course, on the other hand, trying to get a full time job anywhere at the age of 69 would be really hard! Apropos of nothing, I was signed off unwell about 4 years ago and thus he is the only wage earner in the house. My main fear is that he may lose his temper slightly at the next meeting next week.

Any thoughts would be good here.

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Keith | 0 Posts

16 Jul, 2019 21:04

Its a really difficult situation.

Retail is going through a really tough time as we all know and some/many of the pressures on him probably have little to do with him and everything to do with the pressures the organisation is under. Its not unusual for retail managers to work stupid hours - not fair, not right but not unusual.

You need (IMO) to step back and help him separate out his performance and what he is doing right/wrong and the general retail landscape. If you come to the conclusion he is being treated unfairly then consider fighting! If however he isnt actually performing and there is a real chance of a fair dismissal then consider the alternative role (and is the shop was closed and he was made redundant then his redundancy pay wouldnt be very different)

Whilst I feel for the situation you are in its very hard to advise. Is £305 a week and less stress better than £375 and all the stress, the late nights and the disciplinary?
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J | 0 Posts

16 Jul, 2019 21:11

In reply to Keith:
I agree with that actually. The late nights would still abound as the shops have ludicrous opening/closing times but I think he just feels a bit depressed about it all. He can work out returns for people in his head and yet he'll be working for peanuts after so many years alongside those who know nothing about the industry at all! That is what he finds sad in many ways.
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Keith | 0 Posts

17 Jul, 2019 13:41

In reply to J:
Frankly (and I know its easy for me to say) but is the difference between being paid £9.61 and £8.61 ie £1 an hour the difference between being paid reasonably and peanuts? I understand why he feels depressed - its been his working life - but things do change. If hes not performing at the standard the store needs then in retail they will get rid of pretty quickly. If he is performing then he might have more options.
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J | 0 Posts

19 Jul, 2019 01:48

In reply to Keith:
The difference is about £180 - £200 a month is the problem - not to mention, of course, that yet another 18 year old with zero understanding of the industry will be on the same wage. 900 shops are closing apparently throughout England so it just seems they are attempting to hang on to a man who can do the job but to force him to work for money which is only a tad over the minimum wage
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Keith | 0 Posts

19 Jul, 2019 07:51

In reply to J:
That may well be true. Or they actually might be trying to do right thing ( and it would be a very detailed plan that put him on a pip 4 months ago to get ready for this situation).

But fundamentally their motives aren’t important. What is, is how strongly he can fight this and what evidence he has. If he wants redundancy then he should have a protected conversation with his area manager. If he wants a job going forward then this “might” be the best long term solution
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J | 0 Posts

19 Jul, 2019 08:31

In reply to Keith:
Firstly, I would like to say how much I appreciate your advice on this issue. I am not sure what a 'protected conversation' is to be honest. As I mentioned before, the area manager came over to the Island to warn him of the potential situation. Personally (albeit selfishly) I can only think of the horrors that await should he just be sacked. Ergo, I just assume it's best to be treated like an idiot and accept a job beneath his capabilities on silly wages. I think they have enough proof to be honest. He was told yesterday that he had to get the staffing down to the 99 hours (or whatever it was) and there was no-one he could call upon unless he does yet another 12 hour day himself. In all honesty, Keith, I just do not think the expectations are very fair. If one is unwell (even if one in hospital) it is up to the manager to phone all these people that may (or may not be) available to work. Being phoned by staff when one is on holiday or off sick to sort out shop problems seems a wee bit unfair.
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Keith | 0 Posts

19 Jul, 2019 08:59
In reply to J:

A protected conversation is where an employee (or the employer) and table something in some circumstances (in this case just make me redundant and I will go and take the money) and if agreement can be reached great - but if agreement isn't reached then neither party can use the fact that the conversation took place to affect future decisions.

Retail (as you both will know) can be a very tough old business and some of the demands placed on store managers are to many unreasonable. But they are sadly all too common. In smaller stores especially like this sounds, then there is an "expectation" that the Manager will work stupid hours. Him enforcing some sort of work to rule is unlikely to help at the moment but is an option.

His options as I see them (in no particular order)
1. Take the lower grade job. Its a job after all and keeps him employed and you getting some money. Hopefully reduces the stress on him and the out of hours work. But it does hit his pride and it seems unfair to him.
2. Try and have a protected conversation given his length of service and negotiate a redundancy based on his shop managers role.
3. Fight the disciplinary situation based on the unreasonableness of the demands being placed on him and that he is doing the very best he can in the circumstances. Also you mention the island - if this is a small community the negative PR of sacking a long serving loyal employee in a small community etc etc. (That may also play into 2 above). Risk is he may get fairly dismissed with only his notice pay (12 weeks)
4. Go off sick - not a solution long term and eventually he will have to face one of three above but short term its always an option depending on company sick pay situation (if any)
None are necessarily great options at the moment
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Steve Bridger | 0 Posts

Community Manager

19 Jul, 2019 09:00

In reply to J:
Welcome to the Community, by the way :)
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