Term Time Working - Bank holidays part time staff - General - HR in Schools and Academies

10 Term Time Working - Bank holidays part time staff

28 Mar, 2019 11:58

hoping for some advice on what other schools/academies do in this situation:

we currently follow Green Book for term time calculations and holidays - so eight days for banks are incorporated into the salary calculations for term time employees. However if a part time member of staff works only Tuesday and Thursday and there was a bank holiday on the Monday we have been challenged that the person who would normally work Monday gets the day off paid and the person who doesn't work Monday is at a detriment - they still receive a bank holiday element but don't benefit from the days holiday - does anyone do anything to rectify this?

Also we the same member of staff who works Tues and Thursday is on a term time contract of 38 weeks - she therefore believes she should work 76 days over the academic year (38 weeks x 2 days) - she has however mapped out the days worked from the 01.09.17 to the 31.08.18 and has actually worked 78 days due to how the Tues/Wed falls through the year - again believing she is suffering a detriment - has anyone else experience of this?

we calculate part time salaries in accordance with the term time weeks they work and not by days and i cannot find anyone else who does this any different however understand this employee has a valid argument. We could pay the extra days or in future just make sure she only works 76 days however this could open up a can of worms with all our other part time staff moving forward

Thanks in advance

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Helen | 0 Posts

17 Apr, 2019 14:50

Hi Lynette,

I had a similar query recently and checked with our legal advisors who basically said that because they are receiving their paid pro rata entitlement whether they are off work or not is irrelevant, from a legal point of view of course!

I've previously worked in a commercial environment where calculations were based on where the bank hols fell in relation to specific shift patterns and holiday leave adjusted accordingly (plus or minus), but not possible within schools where holidays are effectively rolled up in salary and not booked and taken.

That's my understanding anyway!!

Hope this helps

Helen
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Sasha | 0 Posts

25 Apr, 2019 22:36

Does she work 2/5 inset days? If so, she works 39 weeks of the year. If her pay is calculated by 44.3 weeks, she’s being paid term time inc inset days and holiday. If she’s 5 years or more service, the holiday entitlement increases so would be slightly more than 44.3. I’ve not got my pay book at home so cant check right now. The calculations for pay for term time staff is the same regardless of what days of the week they work. If she doesn’t work a Monday then she won’t benefit to the day off but she’s still be paid (prorata) for the bank holidays. She wouldn’t then be entitled to a day off on another day too. In my opinion anyway. Happy to share my pay calculation info with you if that helps.
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Lynette | 0 Posts

26 Apr, 2019 07:54

In reply to Sasha:
Hi

thanks for the information. We have also received legal advice that suggests different. yes agree the employee has received a pro rata payment for the bank holidays however there is still an argument that if an employee (37 hours so in Mon-Fri) works on the day a bank holiday falls (as their usual working day) they have the day off and are still paid for it whereas the employee who does not usually work on that day is technically at a detriment compared to a full time member of staff
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Tracy-Anne Smith | 0 Posts

3 May, 2019 09:12

In reply to Lynette:
hi all

I am getting the same queries as well and staff are saying the same - that if the bank holiday is not a working day then that they don't benefit

And the latest query is that the pro rata calculation is i.e. worked out for the 38 / 39 working weeks but the this year, Easter holiday Monday fell on a working week as does the May bank holiday.

It would be useful to have some clarity on this, as mentioned above, this could open a whole can of worms for all affected staff.

On one of my LA contracts there is a statement that says :

“Part time staff for whom the Bank or Public Holiday is not a normal working day, should be credited with time off in lieu calculated as one fifth of their normal contracted weekly hours to be taken-by prior agreement with their Headteacher as soon as practically possible within the current leave year.”

Yet in one of my other schools (for TUPE staff) there is no information and as for Academy Trust staff we have no extra wording in our contracts.

The question is where do we go with this ? how do we manage it and confirming we are all using the 'same' pro rata calculations that means we should give B/H's as TOIL for part time staff........ thoughts appreciated.
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Sarah | 0 Posts

3 May, 2019 15:00

thanks for posting. We are not a school, but have experienced a similar situation recently, trying to work out how to settle the part time workers/ bank holiday mondays issue - it's been a real headache!!
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Helen | 0 Posts

4 May, 2019 16:47

In reply to Sarah:

I'm relation to non schools I used to have a spreadsheet with all the different shift patterns available to staff. I would then work out what their pro rata entitlement was to bank holidays. I would then work out how many bank holidays fell on their shift patter. The difference, plus or minus, was then added to their annual leave.

Just out of curiosity could anyone school based who has replied to this thread have a look at my other post regarding staff holiday payment for overtime and how you calculate this please?? Thanks!
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Sasha | 0 Posts

4 May, 2019 17:27

In reply to Helen :
Holiday entitlement hadn’t actually occurred to me re overtime - I’ll have a look at my payslip and see if my overtime has any holiday pay on top of the hourly rate and let you know. Term time contracts are really tricky. I’ll have a look at what mine says re bank hols too
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Glenys | 0 Posts

4 Jun, 2019 16:27

In reply to Sasha:
Hi
Broadly speaking, but depending on contract.. Overtime would not include holiday pay for full time employees, as they would already receive full holiday entitlement.
Holiday pay should only be paid on overtime for part time employees, up to the equivalent of full time staff holiday entitlement.
Casual employees, are usually paid their holiday pay, along with their pay for hours worked, as they may not work on another occasion so makes sense to pay holiday pay as they go.

Helen
I agree with your spread sheet. For staff working less than 5 days per week or variable hours; I keep a record of their holidays in hours not days and calculate pro rata, so they in effect are paid for the bank holiday and don't book it off as they didn't take time off, so they could take their accrued bank holiday off anytime.
Agree its complex ..... I have worked as School Business Manager.
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Helen | 0 Posts

4 Jun, 2019 21:42

In reply to Glenys:
Thanks Glenys for your reply, that's helpful to check my understanding.
The overtime query is related to part time staff who are working extra hours up to full time but still only paid their part time holidays. Our SBM assumed it was rolled up in hourly rate which it isn't. Having now raised it with him and carried out calculations it looks like we will owe a total of around 500 hours for the past year which he doesn't want to pay due to budget constraints. I see it as a legal obligation in the same way as we pay the inland revenue. An argument I have to battle, amongst others where financial constraints seem to take precedence over legal obligations!! Thanks again!
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Glenys | 0 Posts

5 Jun, 2019 16:07

In reply to Helen :
Hi Helen To work out correctly your payroll should be able to advise. You also need to look at contractual holiday entitlement. see EAT Bear Scotland v Fulton 2014 non guaranteed o/t taken into acc when calc holiday pay. However Judges use EU directive based on 20 days stat (not 28 days) ... if holiday pay is included in salary it should be shown seperately. It doesnt follow all o/t accrues extra holidays its up to fte and stat. Sorry I cant give firm figures.
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