Hi Alexandra and welcome to the Communities.

I can appreciate your concern - this sounds like a tricky situation.

Who would normally approve (or preapprove) the TA's overtime - is it the SLT member who is off sick? Can anyone else confirm she had an agreement to work these hours or that she has definitely worked all the hours she is claiming for? I'd also check her contract to see exactly what is says.


Has she submitted OT previously in a timely manner? Unless someone is really naïve or brand new to this sort of working environment, I find it hard to believe that they think it's ok to store up OT claims for a whole year without even checking with someone what they ought to be doing, even in the absence with the person who normally deals with them. Regardless of what's been done up to now, it seems prudent to put a rule in place that OT must be a) pre approved and b) claimed within a short time of the work being done (e.g. three months) so you're covered in future.

If the lady has done the work and you can evidence this, then I think it ought to be paid - I don't know what her salary is, but do you run the risk of her dropping below the NMW if you don't pay her for it? Actually that's a good reason to insist she submits claims on a monthly basis - otherwise you risk breaching NMW rules. I would accompany the payment with a stern word to the effect of 'Don't do this again' ;-)

I suspect your governors will be scrutinising your budget a bit more closely next year to ensure you've costed all your activities fully. ;-) Is there really no contingency to cover this unexpected situation? At my son's school, if TA's run after school activities those are charged for to cover the cost of the TA's time. It's only a pound or two per child but it makes sure everything is covered.

Hope that helps - I'm sure more learned colleagues here will be able to provide some more advice too.

Jackie

Welcome to Community, Alex!

You can of course simply decline to pay the overtime claim on the grounds that it had never been approved or even discussed at the outset. An argument may well follow regarding whether or not the overtime had been pre-approved, by implication if not expressly, but, realistically, if you maintain refusal there's not much redress available to employee - hypothetically: formal grievance / trade union if they're in one / even breach of contract or unlawful wage deduction court or tribunal claim, but practically it may well not be worthwhile or feasible.

However, you won't have a happy bunny of an employee as a consequence and you can hardly expect them to provide any future willingness to cover the absent teacher's work if it's outside this employee's normal working hours, so some kind of ad hoc settlement involving say a compromise ex gratia payment for past 'overtime' and some kind of incentive to cover the future requirements might be worth exploring?

In reply to David:

(Crossed with Jackie's response ) - hadn't considered possible complication of NMW - good point and all the more reason to seek an amicable compromise.

In reply to Jacqueline:

Thank you - I really appreciate your reply. I hadn't considered NMW, but don't envisage that to be an issue given her grade.

In reply to David:

Thank you. Plenty to consider there.

I'm not sure if NMW will apply anyway, if it could be argued that the hours worked in excess of her contract were performed as after-school volunteering, which is common in community groups like primary schools.

I've recently had a similar situation - not as much overtime, but accrued in a single month, and in a different environment - that arose from a general lack of understanding within the managers of how overtime is supposed to be managed and dealt with.

We decided to pay the overtime as one-off and re-educated the team on how to handle overtime in order to avoid a repeat in the future.

In you case, with a HUGE chunk of overtime being claimed, but without prior authorization (which is required) you're naturally reluctant to just roll over and pay it. On the one hand, working voluntary overtime is a breach of contract which is supposed to be authorized by a relevant manager before it's worked. On the other, this person has been working these hours in good faith, thinking they were going to be paid for them.

In your position, I would try to arrange for a one-off honorarium (not overtime) payment as a "thank you" gesture to this TA for her willingness to go above and beyond the call of duty in her afterschool activities. The value of this should then be subject to a negotiation with the TA and all parties need to have their understanding of what overtime is and how and when it is paid urgently refreshed.

Line drawn. Move on.

The only thing I would add (and picking up on something Robey said) is are you confident that these hours were worked in "good faith" that they were over time. I have no evidence that they weren't but its a coincidence that this large claim pops up at the same time that the authorising manager is off sick.....

In reply to Robey:

I'd be cautious about arguing that hours the TA carried out in excess of her contracted hours were voluntary - although that tends to be the case for teachers, in my experience TAs are paid for extra hours. As Alex has said the pay is enough that NMW/Living Wage doesn't apply, that gives a measure of security here but I'm always nervous of expecting relatively low paid staff to do 'voluntary' extra hours - it just doesn't seem fair to me.

Hi Alex
Interesting scenario! I think that you have already had plenty of advice but thought that this may be useful going forward. I have come across similar situations where claims forms were submitted without a thought for who was paying (which budget pot)! After consultation, it was decided that our claim form was to be re-designed with the following information added:
1. All additional hours / overtime must be agreed by a senior manager before being worked.
2. Claim forms must be submitted no later than the 10th of the month after the month in which the work was carried out.
The claim form must be signed by the employee, the senior manager agreeing the claim and by the Finance Manager before being passed over for payment.

Senior managers were briefed about the new process and then the information was cascaded down through the workforce. The first few months were difficult, but the message has definitely been put across.
It may also be worth mentioning that employees whose normal monthly earnings fall below the NI threshold can trigger paying NI if they store up a claim, which may not be the case if the hours had been claimed within the correct month. Explaining to employees that they now have to pay NI can be a powerful incentive to claim on time.

In reply to Jacqueline:

You're absolutely right, Jacqueline. A lot rests on whether voluntary hours are "expected" (culturally or otherwise). At my local primary school, quite a few TAs do voluntary activities to support the school, but it's clearly understood that this isn't a condition of employment or an expectation and those who elect not to don't suffer any disadvantage from choosing not to participate in the extracurricular programme. Most of those who do are either parents or former pupils (or both!) with an emotional attachment to the school.

In reply to Keith:

Largely what we are looking at Keith!

Thank you everyone for your replies. Still rumbling on but plenty of very helpful advice, which is greatly appreciated.

In reply to Alex:

Do let us know how it all goes, what you decide to do and how it's received, Alex. ;-) I hope you manage to resolve it harmoniously.

Thank you for all your responses. An update as promised.
We had a conversation with her, explained it wasn't in the budget and proposed TOIL. Whilst she was disappointed, she agreed. She gets an extra few weeks off over the course of the year (WEX week, some time before Christmas and some yet to be agreed) and now understands the need not to store it up,
My lesson learnt, sometimes (not always, but sometimes!) an adult conversation is the way forward! Thank you for your advice. I really did appreciate it!