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is this a dismissive offense

Yvonne

| 0 Posts

8 Jun, 2017 18:43

Recently 2 work colleagues were caught, 1 gave the other his swipe access card and asked him him to clock him so that he could leave 4 hours before the end of shift

A very detailed investigation has been carried out and both have admitted that they did this.

Would you fire both

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  • Ray

    | 0 Posts

    8 Jun, 2017 19:45

    Fraud, jointly organised - if the investgation is sound I would dismiss both, unless there are mitigating circumstances
  • David Perry

    | 0 Posts

    8 Jun, 2017 20:49

    No I wouldn't.

    Yes I would

    It depends on the company and also on the individuals concerned doesn't it? This used to happen when I worked in as a scaffolder in construction it was a reasonably common activity, with tactic approval of our supervisors. If caught I would not have expected to get the sack as it was often done and the company, it could have been argued, turned a blind eye.

    If, on the other hand I worked in a company as an HR manager and the card was also used to identify who was present (say in an office block) along with wages information, then I'd probably be expected to get dismissed if I had been the only offender.
  • Keith

    | 0 Posts

    8 Jun, 2017 21:47

    Clearly pre- meditated fraud so subject to any guidance and in-house rules its entirely possible this could be said to go to the heart of the employment contract and therefore be gross misconduct. I think its entirely possible therefore to potentially dismiss both fairly.

    But that doesn't mean you have to and I would listen carefully to any mitigation and also seek to understand why they did it. Add to that their work history with you (and frankly their skills) and that would lead to a balanced judgement.
  • Yvonne

    | 0 Posts

    9 Jun, 2017 10:32

    In reply to Keith:

    Thank you.
    Neither can offer a valid reason why they did it . The guy who clocked the other out regarded it as 'doing him a favour'
    Skills will also be an issue but setting a precedence is also important.
  • Yvonne

    | 0 Posts

    9 Jun, 2017 10:32

    In reply to Ray:

    Thank you
  • Yvonne

    | 0 Posts

    9 Jun, 2017 10:33

    In reply to David Perry:

    This is the first time that we are aware of this happening. The investigation is iron clad.
    Thank you for your comments
  • Keith

    | 0 Posts

    9 Jun, 2017 12:36

    In reply to Yvonne:

    Just as an aside

    You don't have to treat both the same if you didn't want to.

    You could (I think quite justifiably) dismiss the guy who had the afternoon off and give the guy who clocked him a FWW. Argument being one planned it and benefited the other was just stupid.
  • Yvonne

    | 0 Posts

    9 Jun, 2017 14:49

    In reply to Keith:

    I did not think of that, thanks Keith
  • Kimberly

    | 0 Posts

    9 Jun, 2017 16:15

    Hi Yvonne

    I had a similar situation in a previous life; an employee gave their manager a sob story about being a single dad and hard up for cash so the manager signed him in and out when he wasn't actually there allowing him to clock up time he didn't work.

    After investigating, both were invited to disciplinaries for GM and the employee was dismissed for fraud and the manager was given a fww, as we took his intentions into account and the fact he was, up until this point, an excellent employee.
  • Ray

    | 0 Posts

    9 Jun, 2017 16:52

    In reply to Kimberly:

    Quite right Kimberly, context is all. Treating people equitably is not the same as equal treatment....
  • Yvonne

    | 0 Posts

    11 Jun, 2017 13:00

    In reply to Kimberly:

    Thank you Ray and Kimberly
    The guy who left early is full time and the other is on contract. I have spoken to both and from all of the comments raised here and agan thank you to all, we have made our decision