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Impossible with a capital 'i' to advance in the HR profession?

Andre

You have the CIPD 7, Associate Membership of the body, an MSc in International HRM, are considering a PhD in HR / Occupational Psychology and have four years experience working as an HR Administrator.

However, despite of all of that, you basically still can’t get above HR Administrator level to the next level or get an HR Advisor’s level role.

Part of the issue is that they don’t take on Trainee / Junior HR Advisor’s (or indeed Trainee / Junior HRBP’s) and you can’t get the necessary experience in an HR Administrator’s role to get the HR Advisor’s job.

You volunteer outside hours as an HR Advisor and as a CIPD Mentor, and attend all the events in your branch, but it still does not count or is officially recognised as a formal paid 9-5 role to make the cut.

It’s also one of those scenarios that it just does not ever happen for / to you how many applications you ever make, so are any of the following viable options to take instead:

(1) Come to terms with it and make a life long career as an HR Administrator instead, or as a Senior HR Administrator, aiming to be the very best that you can be at that;

(2) Pull completely out of the HR profession as a whole and change career sectors, professions and pathways, starting out again  from zero;

(3) Emigrate and see if you can get the role instead in another country in or outside the EU;

(4) Look at going self employed as an HR Consultant on the Peninsula model?

How would you personally deal with it if you faced a total brick wall blockage that despite your very best efforts, you just could not vertically progress, get on or up in the HR profession as a whole past HR Administrator?

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  • Hi Andrea

    I see what you mean and agree with you on many points. However, I would suggest changing your employers...go for an HR Admin post in a smaller organisation that rewards hardwork with some form of career development. Set yourself a goal...in a year, HR Assistant, in two years HR Coordinator then HR Advisor.
    It might take some humbling but hopefully the finding the right organisation will set you on course.
Reply
  • Hi Andrea

    I see what you mean and agree with you on many points. However, I would suggest changing your employers...go for an HR Admin post in a smaller organisation that rewards hardwork with some form of career development. Set yourself a goal...in a year, HR Assistant, in two years HR Coordinator then HR Advisor.
    It might take some humbling but hopefully the finding the right organisation will set you on course.
Children
  • in reply to Cynthia

    Dear Cynthia et al,

    I have made a final decision here. I am going to pull out of and completely leave the profession. I broke into HR later than the average in my early 40s, are 45 on Sunday and also now find the added situation that I ‘simply can’t get’ other work or other jobs in it at all etc. It’s like a complete meltdown.The reason of course is that I can’t get the experience, but despite having the Level 7, Associate Membership and an advanced degree, I can only get HR Administrator jobs in the NHS, can’t get above that level and also can’t get into the private sector. I have also made over the past theee years 63,000 job applications in total worldwide on LinkedIn with the click of the profile button, but the ones who do respond say that other candidate’s experience is both more relevant to our business needs and better matches the requirements of the position.

    Why indefinitely flog a dead horse or bang your head against a brick wall. It is actually ‘impossible’ in my case to both move or get anywhere in or with this profession. Perhaps I entered it too late at 40.

    So, the question I now need to ask is that how easy or difficult will it be to embark on a career sector change in my mid 40s and break into marketing from HR with no previous marketing experience, even if I take the CIM exams along the way?

    Kind regards

    André

  • in reply to Andre
    Good luck.


    Linked in applications are a notoriously poor way to apply. I do think as I said before one of the keys is your application style and technique and you should look st this as you embark on a marketing career.

    I fear that if you find HR a career that doesn’t give opportunities to late transferrees then you will find marketing far worst.

    But I genuinely wish you luck. I hope you find the job satisfaction and opportunities you seek.
  • in reply to Andre
    In short, the issue here was that I could not bridge the experience divide and experience disconnect from HR Administrator to HR Advisor level.
  • in reply to Keith
    Dear Keith,

    Many thanks for your response.

    I already embarked in a mid career change from Law to HR at 40 so let’s cut to the chase here. Although it is unlawful, they don’t say it openly and you can’t prove it, was my age an issue here?

    I raise this question as I see a clear stereotypical pattern that the vast majority of people got into HR in their 20s and 30s which I do not fit.

    I also know someone who works in retail management who told me that unofficially, unless you are already an experienced hire, they don’t bother making people Manager’s over the age of 35 and just keep them on the shop floor.

    With regard to applications and interviews, I can get a few interviews and they are very impressed with my credentials, but I think it’s the catch 22 or chicken and egg scenario here that you already need HR Advisor experience to become one, very few Trainee or Junior roles exist and they don’t recognise my volunteering as a paid 9-5. In short, they want the exact and perfect matching package according to their needs and won’t show flexibility or deviate from that, even if they need to leave the vacancy open.

    Kind regards

    André
  • in reply to Andre
    I don’t have and can’t get the relevant experience in a 9-5 in short.
  • in reply to Andre
    I have tried to cut tobthe chase all along. On thuscsnd your other threads.

    Whilst undoubtedly your age/experience/qualifications profile will be a factor for some I do think one of the big factors in securing a role is approach and communications in applying both verbally in person and in writing.

    Given that you are now going into marketing I fear that will be an even bigger challenge for anyone looking to make the move you are.

    Good luck!
  • in reply to Keith

    I gather then that the conventional wisdom is that one cannot or should not embark on a career sector change, or if they do, they need to be prepared to start out again at the very bottom, ie an HRD could not become a Marketing Director as they don’t have the track record of relevant matching experience and would effectively need to go in on the level that of an intern or a Marketing Assistant.

    Thus, the job market is less flexible and also ageist at the same time, and your job title also defines largely who and what you are.

  • in reply to Andre

    Finally for today as I have a role to commute to now, I also think that prople largely carry professional labels with them and can be very easily locked into a role and on a particular level based on their experience, ie you are an HR Administrator, I am an HRBP, just focus on your role, the day job in hand and don’t start being a dreamer or try and get above your station etc. You are largely what your job title says what you are in a hierarchy.

    Could it have also been the case that in reality and practice, there were not actually so many opportunities and vacancies for progression in the HR profession that I initially thought there were and most people do actually stay on the same level or can either get the role or not?

    After all, if everyone is or wants to be an HRD, where are all the HR Advisors coming from? 

    There always comes a time when it’s either ‘now or never,’ and I feel that I have reached that time, two days short of my 45th birthday.

    What is the point in going on with this for the  next 4 years and putting my weekends into applications when they just send me automated rejection emails in return saying that other candidates had more closer matching experience to suit and fit our business needs and the requirements of the role than yourself.

  • in reply to Andre
    Andre

    To be honest I am not sure you are taking in what I or colleagues have said on this thread where it differs from your own narrative.

    People can and do make career changes into HR and out of it.

    People can and do enter the profession in their forties and make a success of it.

    People can and do move up from HR Admin roles even though the competition is hard.

    People can and go even manage to break out of the NHS into the private sector.

    But you so far haven’t been able to. So I go back to my Option “0” in my first post on this thread back in the first week of November. If you want to succceed in this career or in any other it’s about ensuring you present your own narrative in the most compelling way possible online, on LinkedIn, in your applications and where lucky enough at interview.

    Just pressing “apply” on LinkedIn 30 or 40 times a week isn’t a compelling or successful strategy. Taking the time to craft 3 or 4 target applications might be.

    As you move into marketing you will need to address the same issues ( and now also explain your brief stay in HR after law) tovany recruiters. I would spend the next few weeks working on that narrative and working on a compelling pitch for recruiters.

    Good luck.
  • in reply to Keith

    Dear Keith,

    Many thanks for your response.

    I fully understand the option 0 and that it also works, is not impossible for and can also deliver for other people. In my case however it does not.

    I can and do get job interviews which I attend and the feedback afterwards is very impressive. They liked and enjoyed meeting me as a candidate, were extremely impressed with my credentials and I also do  not do, say or behave in anyway inappropriately throughout the process.

    However, when it comes down to the final crunch, I cannot actually convert job interviews into job offers, as they always go for or with another candidate instead, and the general type of feedback I get is although the lines of:

    “We very much enjoyed meeting with you in person, considered you an outstanding candidate and very highly impressed with your experience, skills and qualifications to date that we also found very interesting.

    However, despite of that, we regret to inform you that we are unable to offer you employment as during the process we identified a small number of other candidates whose overall credentials date were a slightly closer fit and better match to what we were looking for.”

    I get that every single time after an interview so here we are and straight from the horses mouth.

    I also pass many interviews, tests and assessment centres at top scores, but they still at the end of the day opt for and choose another candidate.

    Thus, I am ticking the right boxes to get the interview, behave, act and communicate entirely appropriately throughout the whole process and they also consider me an excellent candidate, but no job offer ultimately materialises from it all.

    All what I can say is that it is a highly competitive arena, they seek an almost identical 100% match and that there are also always other candidates out there who pip you to the post, being largely an application numbers game and lottery.

    I also do strategic targeted networking to tap the hidden advertised jobs marked by sending speculative letters to organisations.

    The ones who respond tell me to look and apply online or register for vacancy email alerts, say that they cannot accept CVs or that they don’t have any vacancies at present but will keep me on file for future consideration.

    Kind regards

    André