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Impossible with a capital 'i' to advance in the HR profession?

Andre

You have the CIPD 7, Associate Membership of the body, an MSc in International HRM, are considering a PhD in HR / Occupational Psychology and have four years experience working as an HR Administrator.

However, despite of all of that, you basically still can’t get above HR Administrator level to the next level or get an HR Advisor’s level role.

Part of the issue is that they don’t take on Trainee / Junior HR Advisor’s (or indeed Trainee / Junior HRBP’s) and you can’t get the necessary experience in an HR Administrator’s role to get the HR Advisor’s job.

You volunteer outside hours as an HR Advisor and as a CIPD Mentor, and attend all the events in your branch, but it still does not count or is officially recognised as a formal paid 9-5 role to make the cut.

It’s also one of those scenarios that it just does not ever happen for / to you how many applications you ever make, so are any of the following viable options to take instead:

(1) Come to terms with it and make a life long career as an HR Administrator instead, or as a Senior HR Administrator, aiming to be the very best that you can be at that;

(2) Pull completely out of the HR profession as a whole and change career sectors, professions and pathways, starting out again  from zero;

(3) Emigrate and see if you can get the role instead in another country in or outside the EU;

(4) Look at going self employed as an HR Consultant on the Peninsula model?

How would you personally deal with it if you faced a total brick wall blockage that despite your very best efforts, you just could not vertically progress, get on or up in the HR profession as a whole past HR Administrator?

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  • Andre
    Good luck.
    In order to help you move forward if you want to contact me via the messaging thing on here I will give you an honest independent assessment of your Cv and LinkedIn presence. As a senior HR bod would see it.
    Keith
  • in reply to Keith

    Hi Keith,

    What do I click on here to message you or send my LinkedIn profile / CV etc?

    What I have at least learned with this discussion is that I am not going to get a job off LinkedIn.

    Over the past three years, I have, worldwide, made 63,500 HR and other role applications with the 1 click apply by just tapping the button and sending my profile.

    Its also far less time consuming than completing an application form one at a time, and you can also attach and send your CV along with your LinkedIn profile with the tap of the button.

    Half view it but never respond, and the other half send an automated recruiter reply back that other candidates better match the requirements of the role / experience requested by our client.

    Thousands of people worldwide view those online LinkedIn job advertisements which are also cross advertised and they are really for experienced hires with a 100% exact profile match and fit.

    I did it as I thought I could eventually ‘click myself to a new role’ if I did enough of them both globally and overtime, but never got a single interview, yet an offer out of this. 

    This experience of mine could actuality feed into a new topic that if people are not going to get a job off LinkedIn, what is it there for (ie your online CV) and how effective is it as a job searching tool.

    Having said that, one also needs to write many many blind speculative letters to companies before they would get a job using that method of approach or tapping the unadvertised hidden market as well. Most would reply that we don’t currently have any vacancies but will keep you on file for future.

    Generally, it is extremely difficult and highly competitive nowadays to actually get any type of job on any level, including working in Starbucks Coffee.

    We have never had full employment and there are always more people looking for work than vacancies available, and the employers are very selective and careful who they take, often putting up barriers along the way.

    Kind regards

    André

  • in reply to Andre
    * I do not think that I choose the wrong profession here or that I am necessarily unsuited to this profession. It’s that I got into it at least 10-15 years later then the average member and that factor and timescale is having an impact here as rightly or wrongly, there are expectations of what job role level you should be on at a certain age. *

    45 is 45 to be an HR Administrator with a Level 7. It is what it is and other people’s journeys started earlier than mine.
  • in reply to Andre

    On a separate note here as we have a presence in the Middle East and Asia Pacific, how easy or difficult would it generally be to land a role in HR in Dubai or Singapore, as I can’t get anything and nothing comes here at home?

    That would be another option I would be willing to explore in an attempt to break this impasse.

    Very finally to add, I have neurodiversity or mild Autism which has been attributed in the past as either being a common denominator, recurring theme or which can add an additional spike and complication to the recruitment and selection process, when being compared and assessed against other candidates who do not.

    In short, my mind works in a different way and I do not automatically pick up on the more hidden and unwritten social rules, norms and subtleties of human interaction and behaviour. Things can be be obvious to some are not always obvious to myself. 

  • in reply to Andre
    Hi Andre, I have been interested in your thread and in the useful and the sympathetically direct advice you have been given. Have you tried reaching out to some of the Autism organisations, asking if they have any HRBP type roles available? I mention it because they will undoubtedly be exceptionally warm to the benefits that your mild condition brings. Also you might consider elaborating in your CV on the soft skills which many other applicants might lack. For example, I expect your higher degree of emotional intelligence might be something that other applicants might lack a little, since I’d imagine emotional intelligence is likely more natural to those with autism. You may also be more exceptional at following process to the letter, so long as you know when it’s right to break from process. Perhaps you are better at giving direct feedback? Think about what soft skills set you above other candidates, and think less about the reasons why you probably aren’t getting the role. This helps your applications to have a positive feel, which is what employers want to see.
  • in reply to Angela

    Hi Angela,

    Many thinks for your suggestions and I shall apply and carry them out in full.

    Having now had the time to reflect in full on 2018 and what did and did not happen, I have adopted a policy strategic withdrawal that I am just going to focus wholly on doing more studies over the next few years, get more time served experience in my present role as an HR Administrator and see where I am again in 24 months time.

    It may well have been a question that currently is not my time, but I learned the following and very important lessons in 2018 in terms of why is it that you try everything but just can’t get work / the job:

    (1) It has never been easy to get a job or jobs per se. although we are in times of low unemployment, you are still never the only candidate who applies and also has to fiercely compete with several others;

    (2) Organisations are very careful and selective who they take. Nine times out of ten they want the exact matching, fitting and indentical experience or are essentially looking for the entire package to that measured against the essentials and desirables on a person specification;

    (3) If they don’t immediately get or find the above, they rather leave the vacancy open and look again rather then talking a chance on and training someone up with determination, enthusiasm and potential, or then bringing in someone from outside the EU / EEA by visa sponsorship.

    In short, they are just out to get the very best of the best onboard in terms of people.

    (4) It’s also exactly the same case all over the world. I would face similar issues in Ireland, France, Benelux, Germany, Scandinavia, Italy, Spain, Cyprus, Malta, Baltic States, Russia, Canada, USA, Dubai, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Egypt, Seychelles, Maldives, Mauritius, Malaysia, Australia, New Zealand, Israel, Singapore and Hong Kong, as I have also tried for more advanced level HR roles there.

    This is in addition to nationwide all over the UK.


    (5) The one click easy apply option with the tap of the button and sending your attached CV in LinkedIn, Reed et al does not work or deliver a job;

    (6) Agencies and Recruiters are not much help either, as being a sales and highly target driven KPI role, their ultimate loyalty is to the client, their customer, and not the candidate.

    So, there we have it in a fine nutshell and after having done 65,500 LinkedIn easy apply worldwide over the past four years, I am going to give it up and just do studies on the side of my full time HR Administrator role.

    I have exhausted all options, I have the job I have as its entry level willing to train in the NHS and not demanding too much previous experience and there we are. I have ‘a job’at least.

    What I will however look at this year is not applying for advertised roles but the very fine art of targeted and strategic networking, informational interviews, leads, referrals and direct speculative approaches to see if that wil yield any results.

    Very finally, I do have slight Asperger’s Syndrome and Dyspraxia, and volunteer on Friday evenings with Samaritans as a call Listener to help enhance soft, emotional intelligence and empathic skills. That is always an option if a paid HR Advisor role opens up there. 

    In addition, I also volunteer as an HR Advisor at the Mormon Church’s self reliance and employment advisory service in London, so have signed up to most things and are ticking all the boxes in that respect.

    This year, I shall also strive to get my Dutch language skills up to a fluent level and standard which is also a unique selling point and helps me stand out from the wider crowd.

    Kind regards

    André

  • in reply to Andre
    I forgot to add Austria and Switzerland where I have also tried and can speak French and German, but it’s all academic in any case.
  • in reply to Andre
    We sincerely wish you well, André. Good luck with whatever route you choose.
  • in reply to Andre
    "Anyone can offer their services to volunteer" Absolute tosh! Makes a mockery of charities that have professional HR volunteers (aka those who do in addition to their full time roles), what about CIPD Enterprise Advisers? I really would like to meet these people with these very strange views!
  • in reply to Paul

    It doesn’t actually work, deliver, match for me or tick any of the boxes in my specific case, per the recent feedback below I obtained from an interview:

    ‘With regards to your question about the HR Adviser role, the panel would suggest you obtain formal practical experience in a setting where you have accountability to others and are guided by set policies and legislation.’

    I am grateful for all your advice here, but I have actually tried it all and it does not work for me. Maybe it works for other people because they like them, do not find them different (I have neurodiversity) or a possible personality clash, but in my case it does not work.

    A lot of it also comes down to whether or not your face fits, are you perceived as one of them or more as an outsider, and do you fit the typical employee stereotype and profile.

    But ultimately, you can’t force a job even if you are the best candidate. It’s a collective management decision and they decide who they employ and reject. 

  • in reply to Andre
    Do they want you on the team is the acid test that determines hiring decisions.
  • in reply to Andre

    Hi Andre

    What are you looking for from this thread? You must have spent hours assuring us again and again at length and in detail that your position is hopeless and rejecting suggestions. What is it you are still looking for that makes you keep coming back?

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