Hi Paula,

Whilst I cannot comment on your first paragraph, I was a recruitment consultant before moving to HR.

To answer the question "What is this behaviour all about?" it is a very simple answer. Money. The client pays the bills. Candidates do not. If targets are not met in terms of calls made, client meetings or arranged interviews many recruitment firms will cut a consultant's bonus. It is a sales job at the end of the day and if there is a choice between making a phone call that might make them meet target or a call to someone who sent in a CV that was going to get an interview, which do you think they will do?

And quite frankly about the shoe being on the other foot... they don't have time to care. I would get a written warning if I didn't average 80 business development calls a day, 5 client visits a week etc. I was fresh from university and wanted to get money.

There are many others who write at length about recruitment more eloquently than I can. Additionally, a number of writers (look up Liz Ryan in particular) give advice about working with agencies.

As regards regulation, there is the REC. It is voluntary and whilst you can contact them, they can only take action against members.

In reply to Cat Jones:

Dear Catherine,

I really appreciate your frank response and insight.
Kindest regards

Paula

In reply to Paula Fitzgerald:

Hi Paula

As you say - the irony of HR being the people who should be promoting flexible working and the difficulty of finding it in HR1 There is a growing number of agencies focusing specifically on reduced hours/flexible working (you can find the long list on my twitter profile here: twitter.com/.../lists).

Some of the key players are Oakleaf Partnership who specialise in HR roles and have set up a dedicated part-time desk which is very dynamic but still struggling to build up sufficient part-time roles (reflection on the market not on them); Availexe which is a newcomer to the party but seems enthusiastic; Capability Jane - one of the earliest pioneers but now operating very much as a job board which can get frustrating and 2to3 days aiming at returning mothers and SMEs but you could get lucky!

Best wishes, Anna

Catherine's insight mirrors my experience - this is a sales job not a HR job for most (and you only have to look up on linkedIn the backgrounds of most people who work in this sector - its not HR that's for sure.) They are heavily pressurised, target driven and largely placement is (at the Adviser/HRBP level) a commodity product. HR and Finance have driven down the margins we are prepared to pay for these recruitment services and therefore its all about placing the maximum number of candidates as easily as possible. If we (HR) are paying 8-12% for a placement then the candidates cant expect a dedicated targeted service.

In some ways candidates such as yourself do not "fit" any easily describable "Box" and therefore its harder for the agency to see how they can easily place you. You are heavily qualified, and getting more so, you have both big blue chip experience and also niche, but you are looking for anything from a HR Adviser to HRBP role...Therefore rather than spend time working with you over weeks / months to find the "right" job they move on to find the next easily placeable candidate.

I have often wondered in a quieter moment if there was an alternative market where by instead of the employers paying the fee that the candidate did. Employing a professional "job search" person to help them secure a role. But I think the cost would be too huge for most people as the level of personal service needed would mean Consultants could only work with very few candidates.

In terms of Part Time - I have found HR to be very open to PT work - BUT (and its a big but) most of the HR part time jobs go to internal people as there is such a demand given the demographic of HR people. So relatively few HR jobs go external. I know a relatively large (compared to say finance) number of HR people who work flexibly, part time, compressed hours etc - but again these are al largely internal - they started as full time.

As for regulation - I am not sure this would add any value at all? What would you regulate them on? It is we (HR/Finance) who have set the parameters they work in and we who are "happy" with the service they provide. As Catherine started with - we are the customer not the candidate (bluntly) and we either get the service we ant or w use someone else.

In reply to Anna:

Dear Anna,

Thank you very much for your reply, very much appreciated. Your response, Keith's (below), and my own recent experience signal that there is - clearly - a very limited *external* market for part-time HR roles in London. Perhaps naively I thought that being flexible to opportunities ranging from HR advisor to HRBP would make my search for a part-time position a little bit easier, but I was wrong.

I am extremely grateful to everybody who has taken the time to respond and share their insights/experience.

Yours very sincerely,

Paula

In reply to Keith:

Dear Keith,

Thank you very much for your insight, and for taking the time to respond to me. Very much appreciated.

Kindest regards

Paula

Hi Paula

While I don't work in London I share your frustrations in looking for part time HR work - especially through agencies.

I had a recent experience where I called the previous contact I had at a very large, and very well known agency to say I'd like to have a chat with the person doing HR recruitment in my part of the world as I was thinking about moving on.

He told me they were on holiday but they would call me back - which the guy did, but it was 6 weeks later! He then basically told me I had no chance in getting part time HR work since "companies just don't offer that", but he would be delighted to come and see me in my capacity as HR Manager where I am to see what services they could offer the company, and to meet the management team.

He went on and on about visiting my company and meeting the key players, which was always going to be a non starter as one of the reasons I'm here is to save the "key players" having to field agency calls all the time!

By the end of the conversation, I had decided that not only would I not bother submitting my CV, I would never use that agency again voluntarily.

It's just my experience, but I've actually noticed more part time HR jobs being advertised direct by the employer rather than agencies, so job boards and LinkedIn might be worth a try.

I went part time in my old job after maternity leave, but I was extremely lucky to find another part time HR job locally when I was being made redundant a few years later.

I hope that things work out for you.

Ishbel

In reply to Ishbel:

Thank you Ishbel for your response and comments. One of the reasons why I was so hopeful to find a part-time HR role was because I saw several ads advertised in the public domain. However, on closer examination, these positions tended to recruit applicants for organisations based outside of the London or Greater London area (i.e.: Bristol, Cambridgeshire, Oxfordshire, Letchworth Garden City, etc.).

As Keith (above) highlighted earlier, there are very few part-time opportunities available in London itself open to external candidates, particularly if one is not able to offer at least 4 working days per week. This is something that, at the moment, I am unable to do.

Yes, I would agree that (where possible) it would be ideal to change from full-time to part-time working mode with a current employer. This, however, may be easier to negotiate in larger organisations. Niche/SMEs however (particularly, but not limited to, financial services) where the HR manager works on a stand-alone basis, tend to require that the individual works 4-5 days per week.

I will keep persevering. It may be that as 'heavily qualified' and 'experienced' as I am as an HR professional I may need to do an admin/secretarial role somewhere (and, as much as I am passionate about it, forget about HR) at least until I finish my PhD. The problem is that for these roles... there is a strong possibility that, unless I deal with the hiring manager directly, recruiters and HR may consider me 'uber' qualified rendering me 'unemployable'. They tend to forget that people may apply for 'lesser' opportunities as a 'trade-off' for work flexibility.

Alternatively, you may see me soon walking around Bank, St Paul's, or Covent Garden during the rush hour with a placard looking for work. Sad state of affairs, I always believed in the power of the combination of having education, work experience, and skill transferability. The latter is something that, in my experience and that of many candidates that I had interviewed myself as HR manager in the recent past and subsequently hired, appears to be rarely identified by recruiters and other HR managers. It would seem that they tend to go for the 'box ticking' approach, which I suppose is the one that delivers the targets that they need to reach (not criticising others, just trying to explain some of the challenges and also the frustrations).

Thank you again for taking the time to respond to my post, and share your experience and thoughts. I very much appreciate you taking the time to do this.

Kind regards

Paula

In reply to Paula Fitzgerald:

Hi Paula

It's really frustrating, as there must be so much talent out there in HR and other fields that isn't being used because people just can't find the work patterns that suit them in the areas where their skills lie.

Hopefully in the not too distant future with more jobs becoming automated and technological advances meaning that working from home is a much more viable option for many people this will change, but I think it's a mindset thing as much as anything in many organisations at the moment.

I'm not nearly as busy as I'd like to be in my current job which is frustrating, but I really can't fault the company at all on the flexibility they have shown me while I've been here.

My normal work pattern is 10 - 2 every day so I can take the kids to school and pick them up again, and I also get every second Friday off as we work a 9-day fortnight - for no less money, and no compressed hours! Everyone loves it, and it really helps with work/life balance.

Good luck with your endeavours.

Ishbel

In reply to Ishbel:

Hello Ishbel,

Many thanks for your message. Indeed it is frustrating, particularly for those who are really passionate about making the workplace a better place for everybody, and are equipped and prepared to do that.

It is with sadness that I regularly hear from employers that they are unable to fill the experienced/highly skilled vacancies that they have because apparently they are unable to find the "talent" they so badly require. That begs the question: Why is this really happening? and Who are they asking to search for that talent?

There are plenty of candidates available in the market armed with robust hands-on experience and qualifications coupled with 'transferable' skills that can't get a foot in the door (to put it quite bluntly) because they don't quite 'tick all the boxes', or their 'experience does not exactly match' the required. There is some food for thought....

On a different and more positive note, I am really thrilled that you have found a good employer that has offered you (and others in the organisation) the flexibility required. Absolutely brilliant news!

Thank you again for your thoughts and for sharing. I really appreciate it.

Yours very sincerely,

Paula

In reply to Paula Fitzgerald:

Hi Paula I found a parttime role in London on mumsnet. Have you used the websites Capability Jane and we are in the city. Goodluck!

Hi Paula, I have had similar situations whereby I have been told part time roles are like gold dust and they are. There is silence when saying you want to work part time. This has seriously impacted my HR career and I have worked as a senior HRBP previously with over 20 years experience and MCIPD qualified. Its such a shame in this day and age that we are where we are.

Hi Paula

I do understand your frustrations. I am not based in London but in Manchester but I don't think it is much different here. It is crazy that as a profession we are expected to "champion" flexible working and yet there are very few part time or flexible roles out there in the field of HR. I know of so many women in HR (although not limited to HR) who, due to the lack of flexible opportunities, choose not to go back to work after having children. There must be a huge talent pool out there going to waste.

Last year I was on an extensive job search for a part time opportunity. I am HR Advisor/Manager level. I only found one Recruitment Consultant who actively put me forward for roles and had the conversation with her clients about the possibility of them considering a part time candidate. At best, I was being considered for 4 days whereas my preference (and current working pattern) is 3 days but I didn't come across any companies which would consider offering someone 3 days when advertising 5 days. The roles actively advertising 3 days (although very few and far between) tended to be stand alone for small companies, which is what I am currently doing and my preference would be to move away from that for professional and development reasons. My decision to work 3 days is hugely based on cost, my childcare vouchers just about make it financially viable to work 3 days (I have more than 1 child) but anything more than 3 days means I would be earning very little money for the extra days. In addition getting the kids dropped off and picked up for just 3 days is stressful enough, I think I would burn out if I had to do it for 5 days. A lot of nurseries/before and after school clubs don't open until 8am and close at 6pm so those times alone make it difficult to work a standard working day if you have more than a 30 minute commute. So even if I were to consider full time, my job search is massively limited by location.

Keith, in your experience you may find the HR profession open to part time roles but if they are internal roles, it doesn't really help new candidates looking to move when applying for a full time role in the hope they can later negotiate reduced hours is not an option to them. I am also aware of a number of people who have left the profession because their current employers would not accomodate part time working. Those in part time jobs, possibly feel like I do - trapped because they struggle to move externally.

The thing is, I probably work far more efficiently now than I have ever done. My company get good value for money because I I make sure I get everything done in the 3 days I am here and anything that doesn't get done I would take home with me and do once the kids are in bed. I don't mind doing that as I know how valuable a part time HR role is. I don't know if there is a fear from companies that by hiring someone part time they will somehow get substandard work/service but in reality they probably get more committment because of how limited decent part time work is! Just my opinion and experience on this.

You are not alone

Anna

Hi Paula

In my early HR career, I too needed to work part time and eventually managed to find an entry level role working in the NHS that suited me. In my experience, the Public Sector are usually quite open to compressed/reduced hours however, the basic remuneration will probably not tally with what you are used to working in the Sectors you are used to.

As for recruitment agencies, I wholeheartedly agree with your comments on the difficulties of finding one that will consider applicants wishing to work part time. It is only now that my circumstances have changed and I am looking at full time hours have I found them willing to engage and put me forward for roles.

On a slightly different note, having myself navigated the agency route these past few months I have been extremely disappointed with my experiences. This has included being put forward for job with a list of objectives rather than a JD and then being advised that I was unsuccessful because I didn't meet the clients full requirements. Things I wouldnt have known without having a definitive job description and then it feels like you are being critiqued on unknown and unseen criteria. Conversations with friends and colleagues let me know that this is extremely common. When I approached agencies to source candidates for me, the ones I worked with requested JD's all the time and were not happy to start the search without it! Lesson learned here for me in that I now ensure that I request as much information about the job I am being put forward for.

I have also been put forward for roles, interviewed and then told that actually, they have changed the scope of the job or that the company are not ready to recruit yet. Changing the scope once you have gone through a wave of interviews is not totally unusual in itself nor is not being ready to recruit and this is not necessarily the fault of agencies either but frustrating as a candidate nevertheless. But yes, the whole lack of acknowledgement thing is irritating too.

I dont know what others on here would say but perhaps apply for full time jobs and then raise the question of whether the employers will consider part time/job share. Perhaps once they see you are a worthy candidate it might encourage them to look in to these options. Anyway, Good Luck with your search

Hi Paula

Just a thought, but would it be worth approaching the institution you are doing your PhD with to see if they have any vacancies or if they could connect you with any employers who might have something to suit you?

Ishbel