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Value of previous management experience when transferring into HR

Karen

| 0 Posts

19 Oct, 2018 12:36

Hello,

Apologies that this is a somewhat lengthy post, but I need to provide you with some context...

I have 25 years' experience working in professional services businesses (ones where we sell individual's time and skills - where without good/motivated people, we were nothing).  The last 15 years I have held Senior Management responsibility - everything from business strategy, talent management, business development, etc, but none of this has been in a formal HR capacity.  In essence I was responsible for $14 million turnover and a team of 65+ people.  From a quasi HR perspective, I was involved in succession planning, recruitment, training & development, retention, employee engagement, line managing and coaching, internal communications and supporting the business through large organisational change.  However, I do not have any formal HR training and have never held a HR role.

I have a business degree (but it was some time ago now!) with a specialisation in Marketing. 

I want to transition into HR - I'm less interested in the areas of employment law, remuneration/benefits, grievances, etc and more interested in Recruitment & talent planning, Employee engagement, Learning/Training/Development, Organisational development/change.  In essence, the parts of HR that support people in reaching strategic business objectives and support the business in encouraging people to reach their potential.

So...after having a year off work I now need to plan my next steps.  I am considering the Level 5 Diploma in HR Management - My thoughts are that this would give me good grounding in all the areas of HR.  I understand that I can do this online and can apply myself pretty much full time to complete the programme in 7-9 months.  

The plan would then be to secure a HR Manager role (I expect this would be a decrease in salary and a lower level of responsibility than I am used to) in an organisation that would hopefully fund my level 7 and set me on a path for growth into a more strategic HR capacity.  Am I dreaming?

I need insight from senior HR leaders...would the combination of my business experience and a level 5 diploma be attractive to an employer who is looking for a HR Manager with ambition to develop?  I don't want to undertake the training to find that without previous formal HR experience, I am not attractive to employers.

Any guidance is gratefully received.  Two related questions:

- I have discounted the Level 7 course because I don't have formal HR experience.  Would you agree?

- For those who have taken the level 5 diploma - am i at a disadvantage given that I'm not currently working and unable to put theory into practice whilst studying?

If you've made it this far...Thank You.  All advice gratefully received.

Karen

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  • Anna

    | 0 Posts

    19 Oct, 2018 14:47

    Karen, I would give you the same advice I gave Alexia in this thread: www2.cipd.co.uk/.../70424

    Judging by posts in this community HR is competitive with more people chasing jobs than there are jobs available. You have experience and are willing to compromise. Focus on finding the HR role first then decide what level of qualification is appropriate.
  • Keith

    | 0 Posts

    19 Oct, 2018 15:01

    Hi Karen

    Welcome to the communities and good luck in your career transition. HR is a great career and certainly has a wealth of challenges and opportunities.

    If you use the search facilities on this forum you will find quite a number of threads around people trying to get into HR for the first time, or people like yourself trying to transition into HR from other careers. Well worth a read to get insight from many others.

    To directly answer your questions - how valuable is other managerial experience - far less than it should be. Too few HR recruiters will see the relevance (sadly) of your other high level roles and some that do will be a little intimidated by them. You may well be seen as too highly qualified at one end and too little experience at the other. I have known some great HRDs who have had successful careers in other fields but these have tended to transition within the same firm or for a CEO they have worked with before. Its going to be challenging for you to get the break you need.

    I think you also need to consider the narrative you tell people. You have taken a year off , you are now planning on studying for almost a year so that will be the best part of a career gap of two years. You will need a very strong narrative to help recruiters understand that and see the person and the journey behind it,

    I know this shouldn't be a factor but I need to mention your age. While 25+ years plus experience in other fields gives you a great breath of knowledge to draw upon it also leaves you in a position that employers tend to find difficult to deal with (even though HR people should be far better at it than most).

    Sorry I know all this is blunt but I think its important if you are going to invest your time and resources in a HR career you go into it with your eyes open. You will need to find that 1 in 10 or 1 in 100 HRD who believes in you as a person and is willing to give you a chance.

    Personally I would at least try and find that opportunity now before studying rather than put a year into a L5 and then look (and yes it will be harder to do a L5 with no practical experience). I think in reality you will also likely have to set your sights far lower in terms of grade/level than that which you exited your last role.

    Do you have a network you can exploit? Are there HRDs you have worked with in the past who will give you some work experience? Are there other avenues you can use to gain some experience?

    It can be done, it has been done. But its not going to be easy and you need to factor that into your planning.

    Good luck!

    keith
  • Robey

    | 0 Posts

    19 Oct, 2018 16:14

    In reply to Keith:

    I have known some great HRDs who have had successful careers in other fields but these have tended to transition within the same firm or for a CEO they have worked with before.


    And, I'm guessing, took up the helm of a team that already possessed the necessary technical knowledge?

    I'm less interested in the areas of employment law, remuneration/benefits, grievances, etc and more interested in Recruitment & talent planning, Employee engagement, Learning/Training/Development, Organisational development/change.


    And therein lies the rub. The kind of roles you are talking about *require* not only an interest in but an intimiate familiarity with the processes of "employment law, remuneration/benefits, grievances, etc". An organization can't move forward in the more interesting areas of "Recruitment & talent planning, Employee engagement, Learning/Training/Development, Organisational development/change" without the firm foundation of the former.

    However, that doesn't stop someone from outside HR from moving into it at a manager level, but you will normally be expected to have handled disciplinary investigations, perhaps chaired some grievance resolution hearings, or been through some tricky settlement agreements from which you took the time to learn the employment law fundamentals rather than relying upon your HR expert to do that part of the thinking for you. That's because, now, you want to *become* the HR expert and few organizations will take a risk on you in a leadership role if you can't walk that particular walk when called upon to do so.
  • Karen

    | 0 Posts

    22 Oct, 2018 10:55

    In reply to Anna:

    Thanks for your response Anna. I hear what you are saying and I haven't started trying to find a role in HR yet. My perception is that there is a bit of a catch 22 here...you suggest "finding the HR role first and then deciding on which qualification is appropriate"...from what I can see, the qualification is often a pre-requisite for the role?? Can you recommend any HR recruiters in the NorthWest that I should contact for further discussion?
    Thanks again,
    Karen
  • Karen

    | 0 Posts

    22 Oct, 2018 11:08

    In reply to Keith:

    Hi Keith,
    Thanks very much for the 'blunt' response ;-)...I'd much rather have the truth than surprises! I hear what you are saying and am a little disappointed that there are HR professionals out there who may be 'intimidated by experience' and dare I say, 'ageist'. However, so is the way of the world. That said, your feedback is very much in line with what I expected. I appreciate it won't be easy and agree that it is unlikely that my opportunity will arise from a cold CV hitting a HRD's desk. Interestingly, you, like Anna, suggest finding the role first, before completing the qualification. Presumably you are recommending taking more of an entry level position in an organisation that values my experience and is willing to support me through the training and growth? Alternatively, I could read into your comment that the CIPD qualification is more of a 'badge' than a 'skillset' as it isn't required to get the role? Or have I misunderstood you?
    Thanks again,
    Karen
  • Karen

    | 0 Posts

    22 Oct, 2018 11:18

    In reply to Robey:

    Hi Robey...thanks for taking the time to respond. I do appreciate that a foundation in the areas I have said I am less interested in is necessary. I wouldn't expect to skip this knowledge or dismiss it as unnecessary. It is just that I feel I would be better suited to the other areas in time. Hence why I'm considering the Level 5 Diploma as I believe it provides coverage of all areas as a foundation.

    Unfortunately I have been part of disciplinary hearings and gross misconduct dismissals. I have also had the pleasure of being part of Performance Improvement planning and supporting people to see positive outcomes too. I don't expect to be the expert anytime soon and am willing to spend a few years gaining and consolidating knowledge and experience before I would hope to regain a leadership position. I'm assuming the best way is to look for an organisation that has a sizeable HR department whereby I would have other colleagues to learn from/rely on for some of the more technical knowledge in the short-term.

    So the general message is, 'it can be done, but it won't be easy'. That's good enough for me!

    Thanks again,
    Karen
  • Keith

    | 0 Posts

    22 Oct, 2018 11:28

    In reply to Karen:

    Karen

    Sorry I don't really do the "its all right hun" school of facebook support on here especially where I think it will be unhelpful. If you look at some of those past threads you will see multiple people who have gained L5 and then L7 and/or Masters degrees in HRM who simply cant get jobs.


    As I tried to suggest earlier if you have any chance of getting in only a step or two down from where you left your previous profession then this will be via your network / contacts. For these it will be your skills and approach and style that appeals to them and far less qualifications. They will take a punt on you and then give you the technical HR skills you need.

    If you are hoping a L5 will get you into a job then this will be far more of an entry job. Many will see this as starting again and far more of a blank piece of paper (than they should) in terms of your past. You would probably end up taking 3 or 4 steps down. I dont think you will be any worst off trying to get a job without the qualification than with it but will be a year ahead and several thousand pounds better off. Also you may well find doors closed even with a L5.

    As for intimidated and ageist - well HR bods are people first and HR bods second. Whilst they shouldn't (and some/many don't) some will reflect on these factors and go for a safer option.

    Sadly diversity isn't yet all pervasive. But even if it was its unrealistic in all but very few circumstances to expect to change careers and professions and not take a hit on the level you were at.

    Genuinely best of luck in your transition.

  • Anna

    | 0 Posts

    22 Oct, 2018 12:39

    In reply to Karen:

    Keith has said much of what I would be saying Karen. There is always value in having a CIPD qualification, but it's not a golden key to a job. And I fear you may be very disappointed if you go that route and find you still cannot get work in HR - which is why we're suggesting you test the waters first.

    Doing so will also help you further clarify your commitment to HR as you navigate the recruitment process.

    Yes, most ads do ask for a qualification and as I pointed out in the other thread it's a way to weed out some of the large number of applications. That doesn't mean you must have one - provided you can demonstrate experience that will be of value to a prospective employer. I'm not a great fan of summary paragraphs at the start of CVs but in your case I'd make an exception and suggest you do put one in the states while you don't currently have a qualification you consider your previous extensive experience to be relevant and of value (or something along those lines).

    I'm not familiar with HR recruiters in the north west, but would suggest you talk with some of the bigger HR specialist agencies. I'd also recommend going to branch events and networking with people already in HR who may be able to give you further feedback.
  • Karen

    | 0 Posts

    22 Oct, 2018 13:18

    In reply to Keith:

    Understood and agreed. Thank you Keith.
  • Karen

    | 0 Posts

    22 Oct, 2018 13:19

    In reply to Anna:

    Thank you Anna. This makes perfect sense.