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Reference details and CV do not match

Fiona

| 0 Posts

25 Apr, 2022 22:13

Hi - I wonder if I can have some feedback on a situation I find myself in?

I have recently recruited an HR Officer and they are in their probation period. We ask for two references as a condition of our offer and they have come back. One from the employee's last employer and one from the previous to last employer.

Both of the previous employers are Law Firms. The previous to last employer reference came back with a different role title and different date range (two years difference) to what has been written on the employee's CV, and they also stated the employee worked in a part-time capacity; not what had been written on the CV.

I phoned the referee to discuss their reference as I initially thought it was a mix up however they would not take my call and asked me to put my subsequent questions in writing. I wrote to the referee and explained that there may have been a mix up and could they please confirm that the reference they gave was correct - they wrote back to say it was correct and reflected what they had on file for the employee in question.

I explained this dilemma to the employee, they said it was a mistake and I asked if they wouldn't mind contacting the referee directly and asking them to cc me into the email me with a response. The employee agreed and said she would contact them straight away.

However the next day I got an email from the employee who had gone to her last employer and asked the person who provided a reference for them to look into the historical employment files they had and pull out the reference they had got from their previous to last employer when they took the job with them, and send it on to them so they could forward it to me as proof of their role at the previous to last employer. 

I now have the reference - the dates are still not accurate and the role title is more reflective of the role they have on their CV but not 100%  however I am uncomfortable using this because the person that wrote it back in 2013 no longer works for the Law firm that provided it. 

They also stated they had CIPD - Level 5 however when I revisited this and asked for proof as we still hadn't had it, they stated it was completed back in 1989/1990 and that the courses were called a different thing and they didn't have certified proof because IPD became Chartered. I asked the recruitment agency if they could validate any of this and they came back to say they had contacted CIPD and that this employee's name was not on record.

These feel like red flags to me but I don't want to over react.

Should I be worried?

Thanks in advance. Fi

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  • Peter Stanway

    | 0 Posts

    26 Apr, 2022 06:50

    You should be very worried.

    people lie on their CVs.

    Does it matter? In this case i think it does.
  • Keith

    | 0 Posts

    26 Apr, 2022 07:04

    A number of thoughts

    You probably have offered employment "subject to references that are satisfactory to the company" or something similar. So legally they haven't yet fulfilled this so you can terminate if desired. Added to this is of course they have less than two years service.

    On the other hand. You have experience of them working for you for X months so can judge their work history, character etc at first hand and form a balanced view.

    It appears their most recent reference is accurate and if the previous job was from 2013 I would possibly be less concerned (as you have a reference covering almost 10 years). I also wouldn't discount the forwarded reference that second employer gave to first employer simply because the person who gave it has now left - if you believe it was a genuine reference given at the time then that information is probably more accurate than the more up to date reference.

    Have you asked them for any proof that they passed IPM qualifications? This is the area that perhaps most people exaggerate about. But I would have to say that if they have been holding down a similar level job in a law firm for ten years is the qualification gained 30 years ago so relevant anyway?

    Which brings us back to honesty. How you view these things (and its possibly only the CIPD/IPM one thats a "major" issue) is down to you. Certainly worth the chat you have had and possibly another one - but I wouldnt rush to dismiss based on this but let the probation at least take its course.
  • Jacqueline

    | 0 Posts

    26 Apr, 2022 07:50

    With regard the qualification, I did my Diploma in Personnel Management in 1999/2000 at a college that set its own exams rather than using the CIPD exams. I recently realised (having never been asked for it before) that I was never sent the Diploma certificate, only the Graduate membership certificate from the CIPD. Or if I was sent it, it vanished into the black hole that happened around the time when my house vanished under flood water and I had to move at very short notice! However the organisation that took over that college does not hold those records any more and so there's no way for me to get a copy. Luckily I've maintained my CIPD membership and moved up to Chartered status since then, so there's no real need for me to have that certificate or any reason for an employer to doubt my qualification, but it just shows how easy it is for such things to disappear into the mists of time.
  • Robey

    | 0 Posts

    26 Apr, 2022 08:34

    There are certainly some red flags, here. As one might say, to have one inaccuracy in one's CV is unfortunate but to have two is suspicious.

    The big question, though, is whether they can do the job. And this is in two respects: first, do they have the technical knowledge to perform the tasks you are asking of them; and, second, do you still have confidence in their propriety?

    I think the biggest red flag to me, as an HR practitioner, is that this person obtained their Level 5 equivalent qualification (if we take their story at face value) over thirty years ago and appears to have done nothing, since, to advance professionally. Do they even have a CIPD membership? Do they have *any* evidence of CPD?

    To my mind, this doesn't represent an attitude that would allow them to correctly advise or guide employees in the capacity of HR Officer.
  • Helen

    | 0 Posts

    26 Apr, 2022 11:46

    In reply to Jacqueline:

    Hi Jacqueline, a similar situation happened to me only much earlier - I sat the PG Dip in 1989 when I studied part-time at what was then the Polytechnic of Central London but I left London a couple of months later and never received the piece of paper. Like you I got Grad IPM status and certificate simultaneously and then upgraded to Member (later Chartered Member) so I simply provide that as evidence should I ever be required to do so. I now also have a nice certificate confirming 30 years of CIPD membership, (though surely some mistake, I can't be that old :) :))
  • Johanna

    | 0 Posts

    CIPD Staff

    26 Apr, 2022 14:05

    Hi Fiona you can contact the CIPD customer service team to verify membership and quals (if the quals are still on record.) 020 8612 6208. We also have an online verification tool to check current membership status if you have certain details already: sg-communitytrial.force.com/.../
  • David

    | 0 Posts

    26 Apr, 2022 14:45

    In reply to Helen:

    You got me down Memory Lane, Helen - spent most of my own Poly days at Titchfield Street Building, including a very memorable evening session down in that big basement when the Ents. Committee had excelled themselves even for them and signed up The Who to perform there. However, recall having to retreat to the empty classrooms above, as they were so very very painfully loud in that relatively confined space. So didn't see much of The Who in the end - or witness any of their ritual guitar - smashing.
  • Fiona

    | 0 Posts

    26 Apr, 2022 20:52

    In reply to Peter Stanway:

    Thanks Peter appreciate you taking the time to respond.
  • Fiona

    | 0 Posts

    26 Apr, 2022 21:27

    In reply to Keith:

    Thanks Keith.
    I can see your perspective, and I too said to myself 'well does it really matter?' and the more I thought about it the more I knew it did matter.

    It's about integrity and with that transparency - if someone is telling me they have the role related qualifications required for the role and then it appears they don't I'm unsure why, especially given it is an HR role, they aren't honest about that on their CV and in their interview.

    More conversations to be had indeed!
    Thanks for taking the time to respond, I very much appreciate it.
  • Fiona

    | 0 Posts

    26 Apr, 2022 21:34

    In reply to Jacqueline:

    Thanks Jacqueline.
    It is so easy indeed for things to disappear into the mists of time and had this employee been upfront about this from the start I would have completely understood, however they weren't and I guess it is more about the integrity rather than the certificate itself at this point.
    More conversations are needed and hopefully we have a favourable outcome too.
  • Fiona

    | 0 Posts

    26 Apr, 2022 21:37

    In reply to Robey:

    Thanks Robey.
    You echo my thoughts and I am beginning to wonder just what their level of professional competence is especially when it comes to advising and guiding employees.
    Definitely more conversations to be had and I'm really hoping we can reach a favourable outcome for all.
    Appreciate you taking the time to comment, thanks again, Fiona
  • Fiona

    | 0 Posts

    26 Apr, 2022 21:41

    In reply to Johanna:

    Thanks Johanna I appreciate the time you have taken to respond with some really useful contact details. We have indeed been in contact with CIPD customer services and they have no record of this employee - membership or quals.
    :(
    More conversations to be had I think.
  • Helen

    | 0 Posts

    27 Apr, 2022 07:05

    In reply to David:

    Hi David, I was a part-time evenings student at the Baker Street campus so not much time for social events or the bar - though we did our best!
  • Keith

    | 0 Posts

    27 Apr, 2022 07:08

    In reply to Fiona:

    Fiona said:
    I am beginning to wonder just what their level of professional competence is especially when it comes to advising and guiding employees.

    While the question of integrity is a personal judgement - do you really think that their level of professional competence can be measured by a qualification they took 32 years ago? Rather than by judging what they have been doing week in week out since then? Seems to not be a competence measure to me

  • David

    | 0 Posts

    27 Apr, 2022 08:09

    In reply to Helen:

    Baker Street wasn’t built when I was there, Helen, but at least got some alumnus discount from them by staying in their student accommodation there a few years back and it was certainly an impressive building. - and the discount a useful ‘perk’