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Counsel document not signed

Kellorna D.L

Hi to my community members.

This situation has recently crossed my desk. An Employee was called in to a meeting and presented with a document to review and sign. The issues in the document were discussed, however because she was in awe since she wasn't given prior notice of a meeting and didn't agree with the contents, she didn't sign. She rescinded her decision and asked for the document later on to sign and attach a rebuttal. She was refused the document and was told she was suppose to sign it then and there. Also she was told to hand in the rebuttal for review and it will be attached, which apparently she doesn't trust......this confuses me as I don't see it as best practice. Some thoughts please......

Parents
  • Most documents you give to people don't need to be signed and its often an archaic Hr practice that wastes a huge amount of time and resources. Generally a signature is only required to a change in contract (and even then often people don't bother - say with pay rises). Things like an acknowledgement of a policy probably doesn't need a signature (proof of serving is probably ok)

    HR folk also often tie themselves up in knots about people signing disciplinary or grievance notes. Whilst there "may be" some advantages of having an agreed set, in essence these notes are the businesses record of the meeting and in most cases they are being shared as a courtesy.

    So it may well depend on what is being asked to be signed and why so more details would be helpful. If this is simply a record of a meeting and she wants to attach her version I would let her. If its a warning etc then the devils in the detail.
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  • Most documents you give to people don't need to be signed and its often an archaic Hr practice that wastes a huge amount of time and resources. Generally a signature is only required to a change in contract (and even then often people don't bother - say with pay rises). Things like an acknowledgement of a policy probably doesn't need a signature (proof of serving is probably ok)

    HR folk also often tie themselves up in knots about people signing disciplinary or grievance notes. Whilst there "may be" some advantages of having an agreed set, in essence these notes are the businesses record of the meeting and in most cases they are being shared as a courtesy.

    So it may well depend on what is being asked to be signed and why so more details would be helpful. If this is simply a record of a meeting and she wants to attach her version I would let her. If its a warning etc then the devils in the detail.
Children
  • in reply to Keith
    Thanks Keith. It wasn't mentioned to her that it was a letter of counsel. However, she was told what was expected of her and failure to meet expectations would result in a disciplinary letter being placed on her file. The document is simply a record of a meeting by the looks of it. What I don't get is why was she told to sign and more so refused to be given back the document when she rescinded, to attach her rebuttal with proof to the contrary of what the document stated. It sounded like the Manager wanted to review the rebuttal and agree to its contents prior to attaching. It sounds unorthodox to me.
  • in reply to Kellorna D.L

    From what you say it sounds like a slightly officious manager who is tying themselves up in knots. Not sure there is anything illegal here and while its certainly isn't great practice it happens. Sounds like a general discussion turned into a file note turning into something more 

    As you say it sounds like meeting notes. I would advice your friend to simply keep her own version of the notes / conversation.

    If it goes to a disciplinary then she will be well placed to present her side of the absences and notification etc.

  • in reply to Keith
    Great stuff Keith! Thanks again! She did seek my advice and the first thing I asked was if she took notes. This poor young lady walked into a meeting not knowing what to expect and when she realized, asked for permission to leave to get her notepad. I also advised her to hold onto her rebuttal so it can be presented if things go to disciplinary. I was just so appalled by the Manager's method, it totally threw me off. I actually thought there could be come maliciousness here.
  • in reply to Kellorna D.L
    And in case you don't know a 'Disciplinary Letter', cannot be placed on anyone's file without an investigation and a Disciplinary hearing. Failure to do so would almost certainly make a dismissal unfair!