Hi

Is this all under UK law? - in which case she’s entirely correct and prudent to refuse to sign in such circumstances. But not clear what kind of document it was anyhow and what legal agreement or understanding if any that it was trying to establish

Hi Kellorna
Cannot see any reason why an employee should be expected to sign anything they did not agree with but perhaps you could give more details of what the document was?

Is it one that if she did sign then an attached rebuttal would be sufficient?

Is the rebuttal aligned to the whole document or just part of it?

Do think more info is needed before advice can be given in full.

Sue

Most documents you give to people don't need to be signed and its often an archaic Hr practice that wastes a huge amount of time and resources. Generally a signature is only required to a change in contract (and even then often people don't bother - say with pay rises). Things like an acknowledgement of a policy probably doesn't need a signature (proof of serving is probably ok)

HR folk also often tie themselves up in knots about people signing disciplinary or grievance notes. Whilst there "may be" some advantages of having an agreed set, in essence these notes are the businesses record of the meeting and in most cases they are being shared as a courtesy.

So it may well depend on what is being asked to be signed and why so more details would be helpful. If this is simply a record of a meeting and she wants to attach her version I would let her. If its a warning etc then the devils in the detail.

In reply to Susan May:

Thanks Sue. The document makes mention of absences and not comuunicating same. However, the Employee has never had an issue except for a week where her dad was ill and she did hospital visits. It also states that she did not communicate her late arrivals but to the contrary she has telephone records where she would have called in.

In reply to Keith:

Thanks Keith. It wasn't mentioned to her that it was a letter of counsel. However, she was told what was expected of her and failure to meet expectations would result in a disciplinary letter being placed on her file. The document is simply a record of a meeting by the looks of it. What I don't get is why was she told to sign and more so refused to be given back the document when she rescinded, to attach her rebuttal with proof to the contrary of what the document stated. It sounded like the Manager wanted to review the rebuttal and agree to its contents prior to attaching. It sounds unorthodox to me.

In reply to David:

Thanks David. It appears very much to be points discussed at a meeting.

In reply to Kellorna D.L:

From what you say it sounds like a slightly officious manager who is tying themselves up in knots. Not sure there is anything illegal here and while its certainly isn't great practice it happens. Sounds like a general discussion turned into a file note turning into something more 

As you say it sounds like meeting notes. I would advice your friend to simply keep her own version of the notes / conversation.

If it goes to a disciplinary then she will be well placed to present her side of the absences and notification etc.

In reply to Keith:

Great stuff Keith! Thanks again! She did seek my advice and the first thing I asked was if she took notes. This poor young lady walked into a meeting not knowing what to expect and when she realized, asked for permission to leave to get her notepad. I also advised her to hold onto her rebuttal so it can be presented if things go to disciplinary. I was just so appalled by the Manager's method, it totally threw me off. I actually thought there could be come maliciousness here.

In reply to Kellorna D.L:

And in case you don't know a 'Disciplinary Letter', cannot be placed on anyone's file without an investigation and a Disciplinary hearing. Failure to do so would almost certainly make a dismissal unfair!