Hi Glenys

I’d have thought that just about any employer other than small ones really ought to be monitoring the diversity of its workforce, particularly gender balance and ethnic composition, and that it’s usually HR’s role to do so. Monitoring of course has to lead to action, so if for example an employer’s workforce comes out as 97 percent white Caucasian and the percentage of this group in your local population is eg 70 percent, then your organisation has a problem, which usually HR must bring to the attention of senior management along with recommendations about what to do about it.

If monitoring is taking place, then of course it’s no problem or issue to answer eg diversity queries from eg potential customers.

Your SLT colleagues from what you say appear to be a pretty misguided bunch, but just about all you can do is try to put them on the right track and if you ensure that you generate and retain hard evidence of all this, then of course employment and discrimination law protects you quite comprehensively against the consequences of any unfounded allegations against you.

In reply to David:

Hello David
Thank you for your prompt reply and sound advice, I keep thinking how what I said was wrong and when I asked how they perceived my statement they said it was my comment "I have been in a minority myself and can understand". The bit about not recognising a minority I believe is neglectful, as you mention above we should have some stats on the diversity.
I have only been with this organisation for 6 months and I feel very uncomfortable sadly its not the time to move jobs at present.

In reply to Glenys:

I have felt physically ill since this incident, I have never felt so bad in all my 40+ working yrs. I will carry on and see whatever through. I believe in sampling being on the receiving end occasionally, as a reminder, empathy, with anyone on the receiving end of misguided HR advice. It is rare as most HR are fair and just people, in this case I believe its inexperience.

Thank you again David, I am feeling a little better after digesting your reply.
Looking forward to a Cipd meet up soon.

In reply to Glenys:

All best in what sounds like a bad place to be, Glenys

The potential customer was Imo clearly displaying racist behaviour. Selecting where you frequent based on the ethnicity of the staff is racist.

Therefore the question you and your directors are grappling with is how to respond. Personally I am more with the Director who in response to a (imo) clearly racist customer said to refuse to answer as they weren’t the type of customer you wanted.

I think however both you and your Directors probably need to work through the whole issue and develop an approach and education for the whole team.

In reply to Keith:

Thank you for replying.
In this case the customer would be spending long periods in the environment and they wanted to make sure they felt comfortable. I believe it was an honest question and in adhering with valuing diversity, respect for other peoples beliefs and the customers choice. I have been in situations where I felt uncomfortable in my environment so did empathise with customer.
The question of being in a minority no matter what minority and should we recognise that fact and make adjustments? We would for someone using a wheel chair, at the risk of rambling... I once organised a staff party visited the venue asked if it had wheel chair access etc I was assured everything was and at first look it appeared so. The event went off to a flying start until wheel chair user need the toilet. I went along with her it was horrendous we had to go outside around the building in a cold wet night, into the ladies to be met with a cubicle door that was too narrow she had to crawl on the floor to reach toilet whilst I stood blocking the doorway to salvage some of her dignity.

From my past experiences I have no problem with people checking out what they are in for beforehand.

In reply to Glenys:

Well we clearly have a difference of emphasis and degree. The difference between making a reasonable and very necessary adjustment for a disability is a world away IMO from refusing service from someone based solely on their race.

I think your manager is mistaken and displaying a rather odd judgement on what is racism.

Counting where people come from or their race or religion if it is to answer a simple question (yours or someone elses) I can't think is racist. (of course their motives for asking may be for racist reasons, but like you've explained for inocuous reasons). Even if as in this case, you may or may not know the answer doesn't mean you are racist and nor does giving them your answer.

I really can't understand the reasoning behind your manager's response - if as you were told 'approximately 10% of staff are a minority in terms of either race, religion etc., etc., You were expressing a matter of fact and not expressing any value judgements etc.,

In reply to David Perry:

Thank you David, the SLT are saying its because I said "I empathise with her and said I knew what it is like to be in the minority and its not nice".

Background my previous post was with a charity, a colleague asked me what it was like to be the minority, I didn't know what he meant and he said look around your the only woman, white non Muslim. I hadn't looked at it like that and we found it amusing, in a team in UK of 20 staff we had mainly Muslim's from all around the world it was interesting times and perspectives. We worked closely with the Middle East remotely. I left the charity to join my new org, because initially it was only a 12month FTC, to set up a HR dept., which I did and introduced an online system for free for them to continue to manage themselves, I knew there wouldn't be enough there for me longer than 12mths and I wanted to help their cause. They made my role permanent, the CEO resigned and we were moving to new premises they had purchased and I was asked to project manage the renovations and ended staying 3 yrs. The new CEO changed the culture, we had a high staff turnover for approx. 12 mths due to moving and CEO new staff were speaking in their own language more and more and I would be in a meeting with 2 others and they would switch back and forth, I found this difficult as it became the norm. This was when attending external meetings too and with other English only speaking staff not just me. The building project was 90% completed successful it wouldn't be 100% because it was a very old building. There wasn't enough work for me and so I felt it was time to go back to the education sector.

I think the SLT are assuming I left just because I said I didn't like the language being used etc. It wasn't the only factor and I knew it wouldn't change, I had tried a few tactics.

The point I was making about the incident with the wheelchair user was if she wasn't in the minority at that event, she wouldn't have been in such an awful situation and my reason for saying if you are the minority, its not nice. Facilities are usually for the majority, DDA regs have taken a long time to kick in even NHS properties, don't always have full access for wheelchairs. The new monument in Manchester Town Centre (celebrating history of Grt Mcr) has steps and no ramp, neglecting wheel chair users access they cant access the whole display. They are looking to rectify!

In reply to Glenys:

The difficulty for me in part with your justification is that making buildings and services accessible to disabled people is a legal (and moral) requirement. Linking that to people wanting to select services based on the ethic or religious make up of their workforce (and your organisation potentially facilitating this) is for me a totally inappropriate comparison and is starting with the wrong mindset. Its that I personally would be reflecting on.

But nevertheless I still think I would be using this as a learning opportunity for the whole organisation to review how it approached D&I issues and to create a dialogue to take you all forward to an inclusive culture. Good luck

In reply to Keith:

Hi Keith
Its difficult to explain fully its not just race, religion its the facilities that come with a bespoke environment (that's why I made the comparison) and about people making choices that suit their emotion and physical needs. It doesn't mean that person only wants to be with the same ethnicity, its just in this situation.

In reply to Glenys:

Monument see www.theguardian.com/.../peterloo-memorial-jeremy-deller-unveiled-before-anniversary

In reply to Glenys:

I think you are missing my point that the comparison you made is totally inappropriate for me and that's part of the issue for me. But I will leave you to reflect or not rather than going round in circles.

In reply to Keith:

Glenys, I fail to see how facilitating a customer's desire to work in a white, non-Muslim environment could ever be appropriate. I'd be concerned if I felt like a manager in my organisation was doing this. If it was an HR professional, I would be having a discussion about suitability for the role if they didn't show some insight into what they had done.

How can we not recognise minority? That comment feels a bit too try-hard-virtue-signally to me if I'm honest and my reply would be if we don't recognise it, how can we create and implement diversity and inclusion practices, and do we even need too?

BUT that being said, this is probably one of those situations where I'd have kept any other train of thought to myself.