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Accidental line managers. Discuss...

Steve Bridger

Bad management has forced one in three UK workers to quit, announces The Guardian today. That should probably read "led to quit", rather than 'forced'... but anyhow.

"A study shows widespread concern over quality of managers, with 82% of bosses deemed ‘accidental’, having had no formal training."
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/oct/15/bad-management-has-prompted-one-in-three-uk-workers-to-quit-survey-finds

My obervation would be that yes, poor line management, or line managers who basically go AWOL is at the heart of quite a lot of what we discuss in our Community. As  said in this thread, HR is "not a substitute line manager", or shouldn't be.
How would you summarise your role in one line? 

We've discussed this very topic in these recent threads...

 Where does the role of HR end and that of the manager take over? 

 Blurred duties between HR and line management 

...and we have some CIPD resources on that, too.
www.cipd.co.uk/.../introduction-to-support-materials

As always, I'd be keen to read your thoughts.

Parents
  • There's a small assumption here, I think, that somehow HR is skilled or trained in 'people', management - or leadership.

    My experience or doing my DPM many years ago was that the course was rather lacking in any input in the sort of interpersonal skills that make the difference between mechanical management and 'leadership". When I brought this up with Professor of learning theory I was told that, "We expect people turning up on this course to already have them".

    Over the years I've met quite few brilliant leaders who a joy to work with and for. All were born or developed the skills but I can honestly say that worst 'leader' of people I ever met was a qualified HR manager.
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  • There's a small assumption here, I think, that somehow HR is skilled or trained in 'people', management - or leadership.

    My experience or doing my DPM many years ago was that the course was rather lacking in any input in the sort of interpersonal skills that make the difference between mechanical management and 'leadership". When I brought this up with Professor of learning theory I was told that, "We expect people turning up on this course to already have them".

    Over the years I've met quite few brilliant leaders who a joy to work with and for. All were born or developed the skills but I can honestly say that worst 'leader' of people I ever met was a qualified HR manager.
Children
  • in reply to David Perry

    Are HR Managers good people managers? Discuss...

  • in reply to Steve Bridger

    Its really no surprise, and nothing new in that it is bad managers that force staff to quit. It has been a well known factor for some years (Herzberg's motivation-hygiene theory is many years old) that good management practice keeps people satisfied at work. Of course bad people managers encourage staff to seek better places to work.

    There seems to be a belief that HR are somehow the 'people experts'. I have known excellent managers who've not had any training and certainly no qualifications in HR. Equally the worst manager I ever had was an experienced and qualified HR manager.

    Its not too surprising perhaps. When I did my DPM I was surprised how little we did that was directed towards good people management. I've just looked up a level II Diploma in HR course curriculum. It included:-
    * work place violence
    * strategic planning
    * Benefits, compensation
    *Technology
    * career development
    * legal considerations
    * Performance planning
    *Organisational design
    *Herzberg's motivation-hygiene theory responsibility
    *HR capital
    *contracts
    *new employees
    *Interviewing

    Not much in there about learning the skills of being a good people manager. When I asked the course tutor who had some doctorate in something or other, about the lack of training in inter-personal skills he responded by telling me that he expected that students would have them already. Being a good manager and a good manager of people , its not just about knowing the mechanics of getting a job done, but as Herzberg's (and many others) knew its about the importance of people skills.

    I once worked in a residential home for mostly, very badly behaved youths most who'd had serious behavioural problems and most went on to be imprisoned for various crimes. (I was once attacked by a lad with a carving knife). Although I'd had published success in dealing with YTS youths, I found it extremely difficult and sometimes impossible to deal with these youths. The staff, had qualifications in Youth Work, Social Work etc.,, . Yet few staff had the ability to deal well with (manage!) these youths and some did it by force, manipulation and emotional bribery. By far the best at dealing with them was our cook. She was a local lady who'd brought up 4 children. She certainly had no qualifications, but she was an excellent people manager and never really had the difficulties many of the other experienced and qualified staff had. Sure they knew the theories os far better than myself or indeed our cook. But she had the interpersonal skills to deal with them.

    That to me is a good people manager. Being an HR manager is no guarantee that it makes you a good people manager.

    And much of what was  taught in college was by lecture and assessed by essays which might be adequate  to demonstrate knowledge but not your ability and skill.