Good afternoon all,
I'm after some views on making somebody redundant whilst they are going through the grievance procedure.
The grievance is pertaining to being pushed out of their role by another manager.
Would it be seen as fair making the employee redundant when their grievance is still ongoing?
thanks
It depends for me on what selection process you used and if they have been individually selected (and the managers input is part of this/or their performance was affected by it) or its a whole team going. If its the former you cant get to end of redundancy process without first addressing the grievance
Thank you for coming back to me.
Unfortunately it's concerning myself. I put the grievance in as i felt like my manager (MD's wife) was taking over my duties and i found myself with no work and being isolated. I felt like they were trying to push me out, i tried to address is informally first but recieved a very unpleasent response. I now find my self with no job and the grievance ongoing. The reason for redundancy is due to them giving my duties to the owners wife and outsourcing some of them to an external HR company.
I find difficult to look at it from a 'HR' point of view because it's so personal.
Sorry to hear that Sarah. In this situation you are probably on a hiding to nothing, so I would advise to build up your arguments to obtain a maximum payout.
Because the work of a partcular kind (HR) still goes on, redundancy cannot be a valid reason for dismissal (so wrongful dismissal). Secondly even if redundancy were valid, have they offered you a suitable alternative? If not, unfair dismissal....
These are just quick off the cuff reactions without knowing the full details of your situation (most importantly, length of service). Build up your arguments and make it clear you will go via a settlement agreement, but at a cost higher than redundancy and maybe higher than wongful/unfair dismissal.
I'm sure others will bring their suggestions to help you approach the situation
Ray
Thank you so much ray for your response. I feel very much alone in this situation. For clarity, I have been with the company for over 2 and half years.
Sorry, they haven't offered me a suitable alternative. I suggested that i would be willing to cut my hours in half down to 20 hours and they refused this and advised they are terminating my contract as of today.
Tell them you are willing to consider a settlement agreement and leave the ball 100% in their court to build up a proposal. MAke sure they do the runnning and do your own detaiuled preparation.
Good luck - take as much as you can get, and decide quickly if you are willing to go through the longer time frame of a tribunal or want a quicker, cleaner break. Most importantly, move on in your head
For me its all about negotiating a dignified exit now on the best terms you can get. I think it could still be classed as redundancy given the outsourcing and potentially change in structures roles and its not one I would be 100% confident taking to an ET (without further info).
So its down to tactics now more than results. Its unlikely that there is now a path to remaining employed by them (Practically rather than in theory) so knowing them and their characters what is best way to approach cutting a deal with them>
Before you suggest they consider reaching an agreement with you, I would ask them a few questions in writing:
what steps did they take to avoid your redundancy, as avoiding redundancy is their duty as employers, If they are doing this to cut costs, what cost cutting methods they introduced before turning to redundancy, How they identified your job as the one to be made redundant Who was put in a pool with you. What alternatives to redundancy have they considered and rejected Did they consider bumping.
You will be able to come up with questions that fit the circumstances better than me. The point of asking the questions in writing is to get them to realise that the answers will reveal holes in their process.
Depending on how they have split your duties between the MD’s wife (unusual job title) and the external company, you might also be able to argue that TUPE should apply and you should be transferring to the external company. If she is just taking on a few tasks and the bulk of your work is being outsourced, or if the time you spend on the tasks being outsourced is significantly more than those Mrs MD will take on, I would give this a try.
I agree with Ray and Keith that your time with this company is over. If you can create doubts in their minds about their position, you will have a better chance of negotiating a decent settlement. Once you have got past the hurt of this situation, you may well look back and bless the day you got out of this business.
Hi Elizabeth,
Thank you for coming back me. I really appreciate you taking the time out to give me this advice, it has really lifted my spirits. I will certainly take on board your comments and put some questions forward to the company.
Thanks again
Sarah
